New to saltwater

[cls8s]

Hello there Reefland!

As you can see, I am new to saltwater. I've been reading for what seems days everywhere about how to start and what I need and thought it a good idea to join this board so that I may get more personalized help and hopefully give some help when my knowledge base increases.

I went to my local Petco(I know, but there are no other stores anywhere near here that do saltwater), and purchased a 37 gallon kit that came with heater, tank, hood, LED light, wet-dry filter, net, etc. I put some water in it, treated it with conditioner and let it run for about 48 hours. Here was that:


Afterwards, I bought 10 lbs of live crushed coral and 10 lbs of crushed coral, two live rock, the hydrometer, test strips, red sea salt, and liquid ammonia test kit. This is the after effect of the crushed coral. I didn't know to rinse it. Here was that:


After I got the salt pretty close and the water like it was supposed to be I went back to that Petco and bought myself 3 damsels to cycle. Before anyone gets angry, I did not know ANYTHING about fishless cycling until just recently and used damsels on advice from other people and the store. I apologize. One of the damsels died before the ammonia or anything got way out of proportion, now I have two. I bought a powerhead but turned it off until I can fix some way for the fish to keep from getting sucked inside it and because it is stressing them too much right now.


I know I need to move my power cords, and do fishless cycling next time. My water is all within acceptable ranges except for the slowly rising ammonia due to the cycling and of course there are still 0 nitrates. Is there anything else I should be doing? The tank walls are cloudy white and get back to that about 30 min after I scrub them clean. What else can I do to make sure my tank and damsels survive the cycling? My 2 remaining damsels are in hiding and only 1 comes out to eat.

Thanks,
Caleb

[chrisfont23]

First, welcome aboard. There are a few things wrong here, but the best advice is to go slow. I would have ditched the crushed coral in favor of aragonite sand. It tends to trap detritus and will lead to higher nitrates. Since you didn't rinse it, just wait for the filter to rid the water of all the tiny particles. You really have no choice. When that's done, I would also ditch the mechanical filtration in favor of a protein skimmer and about 50-75 lbs of live rock. They do the job as well as a filter and keep nitrates in check. Finally, I would back my vehicle over the test stips in favor of a liquid kit - API Master Reef, at a minimum.

Tap water plus conditioner is fine for fresh water. It won't be sufficient for salt water. You will need to use distilled water, RO water or RO/DI water... that's a good order of preference too, w/ RO/DI units becoming more popular in the hobby nowadays. Tap water will lead to algae.

I assume you have stock lighting. I guess that is fine for a FOWLR but is not if you plan on keeping corals in the future. You will need a T5 or better for that. Leaving the powerhead on won't bother anything. As you move from FOWLR, you will need to revisit some of the choices you made to get rolling.

Anything within "acceptable levels" now is hardly indicative of anything. Tanks take weeks to months to cycle and I would not do a thing livestock-wise until you see smore sort of Ammonia spike, followed by a nitrite spike followed by a (trace) level of nitrates. At that point, I would wait a week or 2 and add your clean up crew. As for the damsels, the best advice I can give is to pray.

Sorry if I rained on your parade but hopefully I helped you learn a little more about what to do to be successful in this hobby. Tank looks nice though

[FoMoCo Master Tech]

+1 with what Chris has said.

Here's a thread with great information reguarding setting up a new tank: Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium
All of the information needed to set up and cycle a new tank is there and it's a great read.
I followed it myself and had great success.
Welcome to Reefland, by the way!

[stumpchump]

Caleb, welcome to the hobby. I know it fustrating when sarting up but I have to agree with chrisfont. Its not that he is raining on your parade or mocking you. This hobby requires A LOT of patience. I too was like you at first. The whole "new start up" cycle is a pain, but with patience it will pay off. I lol'd about the test strips, yes chunk them. Anyway good luck Caleb!!!!

[cls8s]

Thanks for all the welcomes.

Haha to the test strip comment!

Thanks for all the helpful advice. I know what I need to put on my shopping list now because all I have tank-wise is what came in the kit besides the powerhead. I'm doing my best to keep it slow, it' just exciting. As of now, the water is cleared and my ammonia has SLOWLY started to creep up. I purchased another piece of live rock today to add to the collection. Any recommendations of brands of protein skimmers(37 gallon)? I've been looking at some and see mixed reviews.

As for the lights, it's some sort of stock LED that has a switch for nightime blue lights. No plans for coral currently anyway.

No rain on my parade! I'm just glad to get straightforward criticism and advice.

Also, anyone put any kind of plants in their tanks? I can't find anything anywhere...if they even exist.

[cls8s]

Sorry, one more question.

One of the damsels is bouncing off the bottom, swimming up, and bouncing again. Is this normal?

[chrisfont23]

For a skimmer, assuming you have no sump, check out the aquamaxx hob-1

[Original Fin]

Sorry, one more question.

One of the damsels is bouncing off the bottom, swimming up, and bouncing again. Is this normal?

It's normal for a fish being poisoned by it's own waste. Exactly why live fish cycling is a bad idea.

Best thing you could do for the remaining fish is return to a different LFS that doesn't advocate live fish cycling.

JMHO

[cls8s]

It's normal for a fish being poisoned by it's own waste. Exactly why live fish cycling is a bad idea.

Best thing you could do for the remaining fish is return to a different LFS that doesn't advocate live fish cycling.

JMHO

The ammonia is still at 0. I'm using the liquid API test. I would gladly go to another place but Petco is the only store that deals in saltwater.

[Original Fin]

Not trying to just be a dark cloud here but something doesn't add up. There's no way you can have zero ammonia in a tank with fish and no established biofilter. Either the test kit is expired/bad, you're not using it right, or it's a freshwater ammonia kit.

My guess is that all but one of those damsels will die...that's what happened in my tank when I did the same thing starting out before I knew better. Worse than that, was the trouble I had capturing that last Damsel because it wouldnt allow me to add any other fish without completely terrorizing them to death. And that was by no means the last uninformed boo boo I made either.
There are no shortages of pitfalls in this hobby, believe me. The best advice I can give you at this point is to spend more time in research mode, then plan your system out armed with that knowledge, and THEN put the water in the tank. The learn as you go approach is frought with countless setbacks, it's frustrating, and expensive to boot. Not to mention cruel to the lifeforms involved.

Read all of LeeBca's sticky threads on this site...that's a very good start. Then please feel free to hit us up with any questions or just to bounce ideas.

Cheers,

[Original Fin]

Let me just add one more "wish somebody told me that before" piece of advice.

Don't assume that your LFS wouldn't steer you wrong. It happens all the time, purposely or not. Never make a decision based on what the LFS tells you without looking for a second and third opinion. These boards are a great place to go for that.

[Original Fin]

Not trying to just be a dark cloud here but something doesn't add up. There's no way you can have zero ammonia in a tank with fish and no established biofilter. Either the test kit is expired/bad, you're not using it right, or it's a freshwater ammonia kit.

Actually, there may be another possibility here. You could be mid cycle, in which case ammonia would have dropped to zero, but nitrites would be spiking, and those are just as deadly to fish. Check those too.

[cls8s]

Actually, there may be another possibility here. You could be mid cycle, in which case ammonia would have dropped to zero, but nitrites would be spiking, and those are just as deadly to fish. Check those too.

I've done a lot of research, just not in the right places I suppose. Don't worry, if I ever cycle a tank again, I will be doing it fish-less.

Checked just now and ammonia is showing now right around the 0.25 range. It is a freshwater/saltwater kit that has two different cards to compare the color of green. I think my problem was oxygen since I made the mistake of buying a tank that was more deep than wide. One of the damsels is now perking up with the other one still looking stressed. Powerhead added:

[chrisfont23]

Try pointing the powerhead at the surface to create some agitation. Good rule of thumb I use is to think of the top of the water as one of those parachutes they use at kids partys - all the areas should be moving or something is wrong (in my case it would be a bored or crying child). Also, on the subject of PHs...you want to aim for 20x turnover in your tank per hr...you can go lower if no corals, but I would just aim for the midpoint. So assume something in the 800-1200 GPH range

[cls8s]

Try pointing the powerhead at the surface to create some agitation. Good rule of thumb I use is to think of the top of the water as one of those parachutes they use at kids partys - all the areas should be moving or something is wrong (in my case it would be a bored or crying child). Also, on the subject of PHs...you want to aim for 20x turnover in your tank per hr...you can go lower if no corals, but I would just aim for the midpoint. So assume something in the 800-1200 GPH range

Thanks for the tips. Looks like I'll be buying another one. I had no idea I need that much flow!

[leebca]

You may be missing out on a lot of important information. No way of telling what you don't know, cls8s. You should read through these posts and actually follow it, just to be sure you don't any of the details:
Setting Up a FOWLR Aquarium
and
What is Water Quality

Good luck!

[cls8s]

Lot to read, but I've done it. Once my tank is stable for a few weeks after cycling I am hoping to get a false percula clown(per my gf's request) and then after the tank stabilizes again perhaps a green clown goby. Not to mention the clean up crew. Lots more live rock to come as well.

[Original Fin]

Did you want to be able to see through the backside of your tank? Just wanted to mention that now would be a good time to paint itwhile you can still transfer most of the water, rock, and damsels to a temp holding vessel of some sort. A rubbermade trash bin does the trick (clean and new of course)
Unless you're planning a peninsula, they usually look a lot better with a solid background color, not to mention it helps to hide all those coords and equipment. Dark blue or black gives the best contrast IMO. Krylon Fusion spray paint is reef safe once dry, (not that it matters when painting the back) but If you use an aerosol like that, just be sure to seal the top from fumes as long as they're still around.

This becomes a much more difficult task once the tank's established, and you'll wish you had done it sooner.

[cls8s]

Did you want to be able to see through the backside of your tank? Just wanted to mention that now would be a good time to paint itwhile you can still transfer most of the water, rock, and damsels to a temp holding vessel of some sort. A rubbermade trash bin does the trick (clean and new of course)
Unless you're planning a peninsula, they usually look a lot better with a solid background color, not to mention it helps to hide all those coords and equipment. Dark blue or black gives the best contrast IMO. Krylon Fusion spray paint is reef safe once dry, (not that it matters when painting the back) but If you use an aerosol like that, just be sure to seal the top from fumes as long as they're still around.

This becomes a much more difficult task once the tank's established, and you'll wish you had done it sooner.

I bought some of the dark blue/black film. I plan on taping it on once the tank cycles. I wasn't planning on painting it because the tank might be moved to my kitchen bar.

[cls8s]

It seems that my ammonia spiked last night at about 0.50. Now it's back down to 0.1 or so and my nitrites are rising slowly and are about 0.5 now!