A Little Confused - First Time with Marine Set Up

[Martin Cox]

Hello again,

This could become a regular thing! I'm after some advice, help, points in the right direction, anything you have.

I have been running a tropical tank set up for the last 4 years and love it too pieces and now I have finally ventured into the unknowns of Marine Tanks.

I was given a Interpet Fish Box 120L Tank as a gift and set about getting the tank ready.

I have put in around 2 1/2" of Marine Sand to start off, I have around 15-20KG of live rock in the tank, and a standard Interpet filter with just the black carbon sponge left in. I also have two wave makers to keep the water circulating and the heater, but it is here I'm getting confused.

I was advised by my lfs that I wouldn't need anything else if I am keeping fish only (which I intend to do, I want to go with a tank with lot of live rock and fish only), is this set up adequate? I mean I'm reading all about skimmers, external filters and the like so I'm getting a bit confused and would like some help before I go any further, as the last thing I would want to do is cause any stress on any fish I ever buy.

Do I really need a protein skimmer? If so, do people have any recommendations for the 120ltr tank I have?

Is the filtration of my set up enough as it is (standard filter, carbon only, the wave makers, and the live rock?

What other recommendations could you offer me in regards to the set up?

Thanks in Advance, I know that there are a lot of experienced guys out there so any help is greatly appreciated.

[leebca]

I can understand appreciate your concerns and confusion. There is a post in this forum on how to start a fish only with live rock aquarium which you should read (and follow).

Your tank is about 29 or so gallons in size and that is okay for a couple of fishes. The basic system's equipment is given in that post I referred you to above. A skimmer is recommended since it aids in keeping the water cleaner, however, if you don't overstock the tank, you can bypass this piece of equipment. This puts an extra burden on your chemical filter. That is to say, without the skimmer, you'll need a good chemical filter with more 'chemicals.' The usual choice is a carbon filter. So, if you do choose not to get a skimmer, then be sure your slightly oversize the carbon filter. Use a mechanical filter for sure and with the right amount of water circulation, your live rock should do fine for the biological filter.

The substrate debth is a bit much. I'd rather you kept it to about 1.5 inches and no more. Thicker substrates tend to trap debris where it can and does rot in dead spots that sometimes develop and below a certain debth become so tightly packed that some sand stirrers don't get to it. But a 1.5 inch substrate still allows all the substrate stirrers (worms, snails, etc.) to do their job without risking having 'dead spots.' This depth recommendation doesn't apply if your intent is to set up a deep sand bed system.

That post should help you with another approach, one which has worked now for more than 3 decades.

[Martin Cox]

Hi Thanks for the reply,

I have looked over the thread you talked about some great information, really helpful.

Another question though, When I do perform a water change, 10-15%ish, the actually filter I have running with just the carbon insert, what do I do with this? Is it just a case of taking it out of the tank, rinsing off the carbon sponge in some of the removed water, putting it back in the filter and switching it back on? I don't know whether I'm thinking or worrying too much, I just want everything to be right before I even think of putting any fish in!

I was also thinking of getting a Deltec MCE300 skimmer to sit on the back of my tank? Would you recommend it at this stage, or should I wait and see how I go first with my live rock and filter? I could always add the skimmer at a later date maybe?

Everything looks to be ticking over in the tank so far, Ive even got little bits of growth on my live rock, yahooooooo! small things and all that!

I'm going to be putting a cleaning crew in first, how long do I need to wait before introducing them to there new world?

Thanks Again People, I love this place!

[leebca]

First, congratulations! You are showing a concern about what you are doing AND you want to do the best you can. There is never a question you ask that isn't worth asking and getting the answer. So don't worry about worrying too much. If I don't answer all your questions, or you need more info, let me know.

1. You mentioned a 'carbon insert.' I take that to mean that your carbon is pre packed into a package of some sort? Guessing here. One important goal for good marine animal husbandry is stability. taking out old carbon and putting in new makes a significant change in water quality. The change is not good; but the higher quality is what we want. It's a challenge which is easily handled, but I don't know how to handle it with a prepackaged carbon. Here's what we'd like to do: Every two weeks you'd like to change out (throw out and replace) half the carbon with new. The system doesn't go through a 'shock' of new carbon coming online. You keep up this pattern, throwing out the oldest half carbon and replacing it. In this way, half the carbon is used for four weeks max. If I had packaged my own activated carbon in the filter or into a media bag, I'd have two such bags with half of total carbon that I'd rotate. If the filter holds layers of carbon, I'd make two layers and rotate them as above. Anyway, this is your goal. Throw out and replace the carbon every four weeks, if you can't rotate half of it out every two. Pre-rinse new carbon to remove dust. Pre-rinse with deionized or source water.

2. You can always add a skimmer later, however it is so much of an advantage that I would recommend you just start out with one. I'm not familiar with that model/maker. You want one that is easy to clean, easy to get to, and is sized properly. There is a sticky post titled What is Water Quality that you should read. It tells you how to size the skimmer. Don't believe what the manufacturer says regarding how the product is rated. There is no rating standard. But that post will tell you how to rate the skimmer. Your size tank can go either way, however i advise novice marine hobbyists to use a skimmer from the start. If you are planning to put into that tank any corals or immobile invertebrates, you must use a skimmer. If fish and LR only, it is your option.

3. That post on starting up a FOwLR system has the preferred timeline for a beginner. Just print it out and follow those guidelines on when to do what.

Understand that I usually refer people to pre-written posts because there is a lot of detail in them that I am afraid I'd miss if I tried to respond to your question. Just be patient, and do a lot of reading.

[Martin Cox]

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I have attached some more pictures of the filter in question so you can see what I am talking about. As you can see there is currently only one "black filter" in place, I have already taken out the white filter. With you saying it is better to replace one carbon filter at a time, would you recommend having a black carbon filter on both sides, so then I can change one at a time like you suggested? Or would this be too much carbon in the filter?

Any other advice on my set-up that you can see from my tank picture?

Thanks Again.

Oh and I have a couple of interesting things (i hope) growing on my live rock. I have what looks like little a group of little pink spikes with little yellow tips, and also some what I can only describe as transparent sunshine shaped flowers? Any idea what these are? I presume any growth is good? Also on my live rock, I have a couple of things running around, that again I can only descibe as tiny white ant/catapillar like things, they are really hard to see and you have to stare at the rock to see they moving around? Again, Good or Bad?

[leebca]

To be honest, I'd say that filter is not large enough. I think if I were you I'd look into getting a larger one. You can do with an outside, hang on filter, or a canister filter. I would suggest a canister filter that is rated for 60 to 70 gallons. Carbon can easily be handled in halves and it will serve as a mechanical filter too, with a very good filtration capacity. You would not put in any 'media' for the biological part.

I like the extra circulating pumps. What is the total circulation? Needs to be at least 10x the volume of the system (or about 300 gallons/hour).

Is the rock on the substrate surface or resting on the bottom of the tank itself?

Live rock can provide a huge array of marine life. Not all of it is desireable or 'good.' The people in the Reef Forum are better at telling you what those might be. One of the things you don't want is something called aiptasia. Look them up on the Internet and get some photos so you know what they look like. If you see them, remove them immediately. They look like almost clear anemones on a stalk, or an enlarged hydra, coming in a variety of size from tiny to a couple of inches tall.

The tank will go through many cycles as it matures.

[Martin Cox]

Lee,

Would an external filter reduce the need for a protein skimmer, or vice versa? Or it is recommended that I purchase both?

My lfs advised that this filter I had would surfice with that and the live rock (it is cured live rock).

The rock is lying on the bottom of the tank for stability reasons if I were to ever get any sand shifters, is this correct?

My circulating pumps are fine, I checked out the circulation of them before purchase.

I tested my water yesterday is was one week since I put everything on and the live rock in and I got the following readings.... Can you advise if these are what is expected after a week and that everything is reading as it should be so far?

PH = 8.0
Ammonia = 0.25ppm
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 20ppm

I have asked the reef forum about my growths on the live rock, see what they say.

Cheers Again, This is a great help,

MC.

[leebca]

There's always more to learn. The protein skimmer and carbon filter do slightly different jobs.

The skimmer removes certain kinds of proteins. Those proteins that are high in fat content are not removed very well by the skimmer. That is the value of the carbon. It removes those kinds of proteins. So the skimmer doesn't replace the carbon. However, the carbon can replace the skimmer. It will need to be oversized and the carbon should be rotated. However, the carbon can't keep up with the quantity of wastes that the skimmer can process. So the skimmer is recommended for systems that have a lot of waste producers (many fishes and mobile invertebrates) AND for those systems which can't tolerate much wastes in the water (e.g., those systems with immobile invertebrates).

I'm not confident that that filter is suitable for a marine aquarium of that size. What approximate weight of carbon is in there, when it is setup according to the directions?

I'd recommend both in your case, to increase your chances of success. Together they can handle small mistakes and problems that might come along.

The rock being on the tank bottom is where it should be. Many hobbyists don't know this. Glad your LFS did!

The numbers so far are to be expected. You should expand your testing to include alkalinity, magnesium, and calcium, like recommended in the post on setting up a new system.

[Martin Cox]

Great, Loving all the extra knowledge!! haha!!

I have just purchased a DELTEC MCE 300 Skimmer, Ive had a good read around and this seems one of the most realiable and best in regards to the size of my tank, Fingers Crossed!!

Im hopefully going to be picking up a Tetratex EX700 External filter in the next few days, then hopefully im fully set up and ready for action!! No doubt I will be having a few questions about the set up and functionality of these two items, and what filter sponges, carbons I need etc!!

Thanks Again.