Quarantine tank or refugium?

[Rais]

So I have a 29 gal tank with fish, live rock, and a bunch of caulerpa. Was just given a 10 gallon tank setup w/ heater and filter. Anyone have an opinion on whether it would be a better choice to turn it into a quarantine/hospital tank or a refugium? And if so any setup recommendations? thanks!

[leebca]

I believe the best marine aquarium systems use a quarantine tank. I assume you will be keeping marine fishes in the 29 gallon tank since this Forum is for fishes. Thus I'd recommend to keep the fish in the 29 gallon aquarium healthy and disease-free, you should use the 10 as a quarantine tank. In my years of experience ( Bio - Lee (a.k.a. leebca) ) the most successful hobbyists use a quarantine tank.

Looking at it another way, a 10 gallon sump/refugium for a 29 gallon tank is peculiar. Ratios of about 5:1 to 10:1 (a 50 to 100 gallon display tank would use a 10 gallon sump/refugium) would be more common.

This is how to set up and use a quarantine tank:
A Fish Quarantine Process

[Original Fin]

I agree with Lee. A quarantine tank should have priority, at least in my opinion.

You might check out what's available in terms of hang on the back refugiums. They are certainly good as a safe haven for pods, if nothing else. I don't see why you couldn't use a 10g as a refugium or sump for that tank though. There are no agreed upon set of rules regarding ratios of sump/fuge size compared to DT size, unless you intend to use a wet/dry trickle sump. Those need to be sized appropriately to the bioload, but wet/dry's have no place in reef aquariums anyway.

Some general guidelines on sump/refugiums sizing:

-The bigger the better. All things being equal, more water volume=cleaner/higher quality water than otherwise. It will take longer for nutrients and toxins to build up to harmful levels. The advantage can be exploited in two ways: 1. Performing a water change of "X" frequency and "Y" percentage will result in cleaner/higher quality water with a larger sump, than a smaller sump...the bigger, the better. 2. Performing a water change of the same percentage, could be done less often with a larger sump, than a smaller sump, and still yield the same level of cleanliness and quality.


-The bigger-er the better. A refugium that utilizes macroalgae as a means of nutrient export can be a powerful (and natural) tool. The more surface area you can dedicate to growing macroalgae, the higher the rate of nutrient export. I'm not sure if any formal studies have been done in this area, but Fenner, Calfo, Holmes-Farley and others all advise that in order for this to be viable as a sole means of nutrient export (Not including typical water changes) you would need a grow out area several times larger than the display tank, perhaps two or three times larger. For most of us, that's a no-go, which means we need to up our water changes, be careful about feedings, employ careful design criteria to mitigate detritus trapping areas, and utilize other types of nutrient absorbing media.

-Bigger is still better. Let's talk about your return chamber. This is the only area of your system where you will see the level drop due to evaporation. The more evaporation, the faster the level will drop. If you have an auto top off device, (as you should) you'll never actually see the level drop until your top off reservoir empties out, or the ATO malfunctions...it is for this reason that having more volume in this area is a good thing. It buys you more time till the level drops to that critical point where the pump runs dry.

The bottom line is, it's best to use the most of the space available to you for sumps and fuges.

[Rais]

Thanks guys. I was leaning toward a quarantine, but a sump could be cool as well. I have a decent stock of fish now, and shouldn't be adding too many more. So, its probably a good idea to quarantine anything new, now that I already have stock that I would risk by adding anything more. (its also probably easier to set up than a sump) =)

By the way I already have a bunch of macros in my display tank. If I get a sump I would really be wanting it for pod culturing. It could also be nice to have opposite light schedules to even out the pH drop during the night.

[Rais]

Thanks for that link leebca, that's exactly what I've been looking for. One question though.. Whats the reason to avoid any carbonate containing substrate?

[leebca]

You hadn't mentioned your interest in pod culturing before. There is some very good ways to do this, even in your main tank. It depends on what kinds of fishes you have.

The pods will grow out very well in the main tank IF they have a place to live, grow, and multiply. By this I mean you can provide hiding places in the tank for their pro-creation. But this depends on the kinds of fishes and marine life you have. Some fishes are very good at 'getting at' pods. Even though I have a large refugium on my system, I still provide for large numbers of pods to live and thrive in my main tank. When they grow out of their hiding places, the fish will hunt them down and enjoy some additional food and entertainment. (I believe our fishes can be bored! )

The avoidance of carbonates I thought was explained. I may have missed it. Essentially if you end up having to treat the fish in the QT with copper, the carbonates would interfere with the control of the copper concentration. Copper will precipitate (come out of solution) on the carbonate surfaces. A shift of pH can cause a spike in copper being released from the carbonate complex. That spike could be enough to kill or shorten the life span of the treated fish (even more than just the minimum required dose/concentration for treatment). Even the carbonates in suspension will react with the copper. (That is why when you add copper medications, you may see a whitish cloud develop).

Besides the above known chemistry, other medications may be interfered with by the presence of excess carbonates, or other components of a substrate or rock. If you don't start out with carbonates, you can avoid having to remove them and upsetting even more, a new fish. If there is no substrate at all, you avoid other issues:

For instance, no substrate means no risk of some other chemical leaching into the water or interferring with a treatment. In addition, if you can avoid it at all (that is, if the fish you want to quarantine doesn't need a substrate) no substrate makes the clean up much easier. You the hobbyist can easily see waste build up, and you have a way to check for any 'critters' that has fallen off the fish, came with the fish, as well as the types of wastes the fish might be producing. No substrate in general allows for a better observation of these sorts of things.

When I quarantine a burrowing fish, I don't layer in silica sand -- instead I put it in a separate bowl sized for the size and habit of the fish. I can easily remove the bowl for other fishes, and clean up the spilled sand.

Ask any question you may have.

[Rais]

Thanks, substrate situation was explained very well.

Well I have a scooter blenny which would really appreciate some pods, but I've read that it can be difficult to start a population of them as he will hunt them down quickly. I would definitely like to do it in the main tank if they will do well. I have 22 lbs of live rock, about 2 '' aragonite, lots of C. prolifera and C. mexicana, a benggai cardinal, percula clown, and 2 green chromis.
I've heard they can be grown in a large jar also?

[leebca]

You're welcome.

Pod growth can be a challenge. It's a matter of providing them with the right food, which, you can imagine, can be very small. The more-or-less problem with pods is that you don't get much of a variety in population. For instance, some pods are predators -- eating other pods. Others eat certain things. Thus your pod growth really becomes more of a culture of a specific kind of pod. In an aquarium, the pod population waxes and wanes with different types until a certain pod becomes prevalent based upon the nutrients in your particular system. Still, there is a mix of types.

You are right. Your Blenny will try to find them all. You can still arrange for an area where the Blenny can't get to, where the pods can grow to some extent. If you really want to grow out some pods, there are pamphlets and books that give some guidance on how to do this. You may Goggle such things and find sites that have instructions and booklets on the subject. Like I mentioned above, providing the right foods is the real challenge. When I got involved in pod cultures I found that feeding them was more of an effort than I wanted to do on a regular basis. After weeks of work, the fish would eat them in a couple of minutes!