FOWLR steps 8 and 10 question?

[wet dreamer]

8. LET THE TANK RUN LIKE THIS FOR AT LEAST TWO WEEKS. Check twice or three times a day all equipment for leaks and malfunction. Make any equipment adjustments. Only add top off water (distilled water or water treated through an RO/DI treatment used to replace evaporated water).
9. Life should be coming out of the live rock by this point, and hopefully pods and worms will be spreading around the aquarium. (Check at night, too). Start feeding that life. Add frozen fish foods to the aquarium (NOT pellets or flake) at a rate of about 0.5 gram every day or other day per 25 gallons of water. After no less than two weeks OR when readings indicate ammonia level is zero and nitrite levels are below 0.10 ppm and pH is being held steady go on to 10. Add additional pods and worms if you like, at this point.
10. Begin your water change pattern (10+% weekly, 25% every 2 weeks, or 40+% monthly are good choices). If you want do choose to do large water changes, follow this guideline: How to Make a Successful Water Change . Put one or more sponge filters into the display tank (sump) for the quarantine process.

So anyways yesterday my cultured florida liverock arrived air cargo so now my tank can officially start cycling. Based upon step 8 and 10 I should let my tank run for 2 weeks before I do my first water change. I did a water change when I put the rock in yesterday to top the tank back off but I guess my question is that since I did have some minimal die off on the rock eventhough it was sold as cured rock should I do multiple re-curing water changes? I know my ammonia is gonna spike during cycling but i don't want it so high that it kills all my hitchhikers. Is there an ammonia level I should keep it below with daily or bi=weekly changes? I better order some more salt...

[wet dreamer]

My ammonia hit 1.0 so I changed 50 gallons (25%) tonight and I will do another 50 tomorrow night. Maybe I can keep the ammonia at 1 or less. My first tank is becoming a bit of an adventure, i hope I can keep these hitchhiker corals alive. At least my new RO/DI is overdrive, lol ....trickle

[leebca]

New 'cured' live rock can be an adventure in of itself. Sorry you're having these problems. I wrote about the problems that new live rock can cause: Adding Live Rock to old aquarium

If the new live rock die off is causing ammonia and/or nitrite spikes, then the best you can do is to perform daily water changes. You can also put a chemical filter in the system, in addition to carbon. A chemical pad or chemical product that absorbs ammonia would help. As long as you get an ammonia reading of 1. ppm or higher, keep doing daily water changes.

[myram]

When the tank is cycling, just let it be. Don't do a water change to lower ammonia, it's the ammonia you want to keep to keep the process moving forward. Just test the water and watch the ammonia rise then fall as the nitrites rise then fall then the nitrates rise and fall. Once that is done, you can do the water changes to clean things up.

Steve

[leebca]

Steve,

He wants to save as much of the life forms on the live rock as he can. The immobile invertebrates can't handle a very high level of ammonia. If he was only just cycling the tank, your suggestion would be fine, but he is trying to save as much of the life forms on the live rock as he can. Thus, controlling the level ammonia is of importance -- for that goal.

[wet dreamer]

Ya Lee can correct me if I'm saying this wrong since I have been a saltwater hobbyist for a whopping 3 weeks, but essentially I am re-curing the live rock and cycling at the same time. My live rock came covered in different types of macroalgae, 3 or 4 small brain corals (I think), a couple of other misc corals, tunicates, sponges, and other stuff I'm not even sure of. There is even 2 items that look like rocks about the size of my fist that actually move or twitch every now and then. I don't even know where to begin and since I didn't really (still don't) exactly know what was what I left it all (except crabs) on the rock. I should have removed the sponges cause they are turning white and I assume that they are dying because of exposure to air. This will probably slow my cycle down and drive my ammonia sky high. I can't have that start a domino effect causing more things to die which would cause more ammonia which causes more death and even more ammonia and on and on. I know nothing about the care of the corals and other life but was told this rock is picked at 35 feet deep so they should be lower light species (?) and I hope I can keep them with my FOWLR lighting (T5 HO). I am reading info as fast as I can and have my fingers crossed. In the meantime I am changing the water as fast as I can make it (50 gallons/day). I hope my new salt arrives before i run out......

[leebca]

You're right on, but painting a worse picture than I had imagined. Sponges have got to go. You are correct that their exposure to air will kill them.

If there is that much die off, you may not be able to save much of the life that can't handle ammonia. Only you can decide if it's worth it or not, but if you are not prepared to maintain those life forms you are trying to save, then you might just want to let them go now (rather than later). If you decide to 'let them go now' then you have a couple of options:

I don't see in your posts where you have said how much (weight or volume) of LR you have. However if it is a managable amount, you can move it to a clean, large, new plastic garbage container for curing; or continue to cure the rock in your aquarium. In both cases, the water is changed only when it begins to smell badly (and forget about taking ammonia and nitrite readings), and under these circumstances, much of the life forms will die off. When the water stops smelling badly for several consecutive days, then take an ammonia reading and when it is low, you can move the rock back into the aquarium (if you chose to move it out), or if already in the aquarium, continue to wait for it to drop to non-detected. Then you are at that place in the start-up guide.

[wet dreamer]

Lee its 200lbs of rock. Maybe I am painting a worse picture than it is. I ordered the aquacultured florida rock that was shipped to me from Tampa and based on the info I have was only out of water about 24 hours. When I opened the rock (7 boxes) only 1 box had a funky smell. In hindsight it is probably the box that had a rock with the large red sponge covering it (about the size of a dollar bill). When I first saw it I thought it was red coralline algae. There ended up being 2 other small sponges but they have yet to change color. So long story short I only have one sponge turning white and all my other life seems to be fine for now. So to me there is not "that much" die off but I have been scared of a chain reaction. When I get off work I will try to get the rock with the bad sponge out. Also, the water smelled a little funky for the first 24 hours but now the only smell is in my skimmer collection cup.

[leebca]

This now sounds like the original approach of trying to save the life there is a good course to follow.

[wet dreamer]

Okay let me catch you up on new developments. As mentioned 200 lbs of rock went in tank on 11/9 and I had to do 50 gallon water changes for 5 consecutive days to keep ammonia below 1. Ammonia got down to .25 so added another 100 pounds of live rock yesterday for a total of 300lbs (display tank is 220 gal). Since adding the new rock no increase is ammonia is present and still tests at .25. I hope 300 lbs will be enough to be successful. The rock looks great and my hitchhiker corals seem to be doing fine. I have counted around 10 now...wow!

I now am still playing the waiting game for my ammonia to get to non-detectable but I have 2 new problems: One is that I have what I am pretty confident is a 1.5" solid lime green mantis shrimp that I spotted last night, and two is that I do have a couple of what I believe is aiptasia. No fish or cleanup crew has been introduced yet. What do you recommend with the mantis? I don't really wanna kill anything. Also, it would be nice to have a peppermint shrimp chowing down on my aiptasia while I wait for tank to finish cycle, can they handle any amount of ammonia?

I have totally accepted the fact that "nothing good happens fast" and I find that I am actually having great pleasure in staring at just rocks for now. This hobby so far is awesome.

[leebca]

The Mantis is a carnivore and quite a good hunter. Most likely it will make a meal of almost anything it can catch, especially as it gets hungry. If you want peace in the aquarium, you should take steps to trap it and move it out.

Once Aptasia gets a strong foothold it is very hard to get rid of. I don't have that much experience with this, although I don'te recommend getting marine life just to try to keep it under control. I'd suggest trying to eradicate it. Chemical additions can harm other life forms. Hand picking it out while it is limited in numbers seems to work well. Other efforts have included squirting the Aiptasia with a killing agent. You will get more info on this from the Reef Forum. Most reef aquarium owners try to get rid of this.

Regarding your question about the shrimp. . .I don't know. Some mobile invertebrates do handle low levels of ammonia quite well, a few don't. You might check with others on their experience. Sometimes an honest LFS would tell you if he has sold them to new hobbyists that kept them in higher ammonia levels.