questions about DSB verses undergravel filter

[Tee]

Hi all, I've been working on a 29 SWFO tank for about 9 months now. (More time than money) I put in a DSB(4") when I first set up the tank. I used Southdown playground sand and seeded it with 8 lbs of live sand. I started with several pieces of LR and have been adding lace rock as I have money, right now I'm up to approximately 25 pounds of rock all together. I have a powerhead and a HOB filter with no floss for circulation. I've had about a dozen guppies in there (aclimated them slowly from brackish to salt) from the beginning. I eventually want only 2 percula clowns in the tank. Today I called one of the LFS about their special on LR, he started asking questions about the tank, told me how much experience he had with SWFO tanks and reef tanks then told me my DSB was a big waste of time and money for a fish only tank, flat out it would not work, it's only for reef tanks and that I needed an undergravel filter instead. He also told me that most protein skimmers where a waste of money too (I had said I wanted to add on to keep nitrates down) He strong suggested I rip out the DSB and start over. I'm so frustrated since I was hoping to add the 2 clowns as soon as the rock had cured well.
Someone please help me figure this out, I want to do the right thing before I invest anymore money, Thanks in advance.

[Iron Crab]

I ran into the same thing. One place swore by the UGF another said no. I started with a UGF in a 55 and added about 70 lbs LR. I ran it like this for a little over a year but what kept happening was all the waste got pulled down into the gravel and under the rock. I was told to aggressively vaccum the gravel which when I did I had to remove the rock.
After 2 years I torn out the UGF and put in the sandbed- used drilled PVC pipe buried in the sand to support the LR so the rock won't sink into the sand. I used a couple extra powerheads to keep the water moving thus keeping all the stuff that used to be pulled into the gravel in the water to be pulled out by a filter hanging on the back. This worked great. I also had a light fish load in my tank. The only thing was I tore this tank down in a few years after- to start my bigger tank.
I don't know about lace rock?? My LR was great cured rock that was full of life when I got it.
I have always ran a protien skimmer. Just seeing all the gunk that it was pulling out of the tank convinced me to keep using it.

[the_blue_tuna]

Be wary of any advice you get from the LFS. They usually have alterior motives (like I want to sell you something) In my opinion , and I think 99.99% of the folks will agree , you DONT want a UGF period. DSB's work to reduce nitrates , FO tanks generate lots of nitrates. You dont want to stir (aggressively) or vacuum these beds . If you go to my links page in my sig you will find lots of links to studies done on DSB's, probably way more than you want to know. In my opinion , you are on the right track. The only thing I question is the use of guppies. They may be alive , but they are definately not happy or thriving . I would slowly bring them back to thier original state and give them to a friend or something. You will also find articles on cycling the tanks on that page. You should also have a protien skimmer as they help to remove the DOC's. Keep asking questions and thinking about the answers you get. If you still have questions ask for more explanation.

[Tee]

Thanks so much for both of your responses, they are really helpful. Come to think of it the guy did say he had some UGF for sale, LOL.
I'm always full of questions so I'm sure I'll be asking em
I'm slowing bringing the guppies back to brackish, I was told by another LFS that they would do well in SW. I'm learning to not listen to them.
Thanks again

[fsa]

Hi, Tee
I, too, have a SWFO tank with no live rock. I put in a plenum under a DSB and have had it set up for over a year and a half now. This includes moving twice since the initial set up. I would keep the DSB (can only help and will be there when you decide to go reef). My oldest fish is a percula clown, have had him at least 4 or 5 years, don't remember when I got him. He does fine in the tank even w/o an anenome. I have three other fish along with 3 snails, a cleaner shrimp and a couple (2) hermit crabs. All are doing fine in the tank. I would not completely diregard what the LFS says, just take it with a grain of salt. Most of their advice is a little out dated. Doesn't mean it won't work, just probably not as well as what you get here on the internet. I don't think they surf the net much and stay behind the times. I find it fascinating that you had guppies in your tank. In this hobby many things work and work well. I personally don't think it hurts to try something new such as your guppies. I do agree with the others and think that you are doing an excellent job with the way you have set up and furnish your tank. (mine, too, is low tech and is a relatively low price set up)

[Tee]

Thanks fsa I really appreciate it

[naser]

i have my 40tall for my fish only and it has about a 4 inch sand bed..... works great. tell him hes crazy for saying that skimmers dont work. skimmers and refuguims are the best way if not the only real good fast way of getting rid of nitrates....... never never use anything that traps a particle... the trapped particle will rot and turn into nitrates.. oh and fish only tanks you should use carbon often..

[Iron Crab]

I may be wrong but would not it be better to remove anything that would cause bad water parameters quickly. If using a filter to trap particles and not keeping that filter medium cleaned I know that you will run into trouble.
I have used filters in my F/O tanks but have always changed them out not giving them time to cause problems. After all if it will rot in your filter- it will rot floating around in your tank. ??