Is protein skimming required with FOWLR ?

[nelson4u]

I am planning a 120 gallon FOWLR tank. I have been told two methods of doing this from LFS. One says do the tank with UV sterilizer, overflows and sump with skimmer in sump. The other says I don't need overflow, sump or protein skimmer if doing FOWLR. He recommends UV sterilizer and canister filter for now and adding the protein skimmer on back of tank later if I decide to get into corals. I will probably want to get some corals in about a year.
What do you think is the best way to go ? I would save some money by not doing the sump and skimmer now.
Do the hang on back skimmers make any noise or would skimmer be quieter underneath in sump as this system will be in a home theater room and needs to be as quiet as possible ?
Will the water get enough oxygen going closed loop without the sump ? I would appreciate advice from anyone with either of these systems . THANKS,
MIKE

[Poseidon]

Get the BIGGEST BADDEST AND LARGEST SKIMMER YOU CAN!!!!

You will be AMAZED at the crap it pulls out of your tank. Stay AWAY from canister filters, leave those to the Fresh water guys.

Unfortunately skimmers can be pretty loud. I have my tank built into a wall and the skimmer is next to my tank. With that door open I can hear my skimmer pretty well. Close the door and its pretty much gone. I have my home theater in the room next to the tank and LOVE IT!!!

[Reefland]

I think you should skip the UV Sterilizer too, you can have a tank that is just as successful without one with no additional efforts. Go with a sump (for a place to store equipment and extra water volume) a good skimmer (lot's of options) and plenty of good quality LR.

Scott Z.

[MntReef]

is to go with an EcoSystem mud filter. Natural filtration, no skimmer to worry about. I have one on my tank and I love it.

[nelson4u]

What do you guys recommend for a great skimmer to go in sump ? Is the Red Sea Berlin Turbo good for a 120 gallon tank ?

[Barry]

I had used a Red sea Berlin hangon it work OK but now I used a G 2X asm Eurostyle skimmer from Champion Lighting it kicks a##
Barry

[Poseidon]

I Like the Kent Nautilis... I works well for me!!

[nelson4u]

What about the Aqua Medic Turboflotor T1000 ? Anyone use this or know how it compares to the Berlin ?

[irishjabba]

Get the BIGGEST BADDEST AND LARGEST SKIMMER YOU CAN!!!!

You will be AMAZED at the crap it pulls out of your tank. Stay AWAY from canister filters, leave those to the Fresh water guys.

Unfortunately skimmers can be pretty loud. I have my tank built into a wall and the skimmer is next to my tank. With that door open I can hear my skimmer pretty well. Close the door and its pretty much gone. I have my home theater in the room next to the tank and LOVE IT!!!

Of course, skimmers not only pull tons of organic material out of the tank, they also effectively change salinity, pull out trace elements, and remove any plankton floating around. They're very effective chemical filters for sure, but you can over do it....with any filtration setup.

And why not a canister filter? If maintained properly, they're great for running any time of chemical media in them as well as creating added waterflow in a tank.

I've had reef tanks using both, or one of the other, without any problems.
Any filter can negatively affect your tank if you don't properly maintain the filter and monitor your water quality.

[irishjabba]

What about the Aqua Medic Turboflotor T1000 ? Anyone use this or know how it compares to the Berlin ?

Both are decent skimmers, but one that I'd recommend that is really quite cheap and works as well as the expensive ones is the Aquarium Systems Seaclone...it can either hang on the tank or go in the sump (where mine is right now). It's easy to adjust and pulls a good amount of organics from my system.

[Poseidon]

Of course, skimmers not only pull tons of organic material out of the tank, they also effectively change salinity, pull out trace elements, and remove any plankton floating around. They're very effective chemical filters for sure, but you can over do it....with any filtration setup.

And why not a canister filter? If maintained properly, they're great for running any time of chemical media in them as well as creating added waterflow in a tank.

I've had reef tanks using both, or one of the other, without any problems.
Any filter can negatively affect your tank if you don't properly maintain the filter and monitor your water quality.

Where did you here Protein Skimmers change Salinity? Unless you set the skimmer to pull out VERY wet foam, the amount of water taken from the system is very small. I lose MAYBE 10-12 OUNCES in 7 days time. Compared to the 2-3 GALLONS I replace every other day it is nothing. And I'm sure I do lose some plankton to my skimmer, but again the trade off for the NASTY SMELLING OOZE that is pulled out of my tank is worth it.

And I'm sure many others will tell you canister filters are Nitrate Factories compared to othe methods of filtration, such as a DSB, Mud Filter or just Live Rock and Protein Skimming alone. But for use as current with no media? Sure thing, or as a Carbon holder again no problem, BUT if the carbon is left in too long it starts to colonize with Nitrosoma and Nitrobacter, releasing Nitrates.

Trace Elements removed from the water? Are these the elements located in the Skimmate? OR are you saying a Protein Skimmer can pull out Iodine, (great Iodine levels in ASW are WAY higher then NSW anyway) Strontium, Magnesium, Manganese, Iron, and of Course Calcium. That is one thing I have never seen in a single review of any skimmer.

And I'm not saying you have not had success, Heck I had success with an UNDERGRAVEL filter, but those are VERY few and far between today.

Just my .02

[irishjabba]

Where did you here Protein Skimmers change Salinity? Unless you set the skimmer to pull out VERY wet foam, the amount of water taken from the system is very small. I lose MAYBE 10-12 OUNCES in 7 days time. Compared to the 2-3 GALLONS I replace every other day it is nothing. And I'm sure I do lose some plankton to my skimmer, but again the trade off for the NASTY SMELLING OOZE that is pulled out of my tank is worth it.

And I'm sure many others will tell you canister filters are Nitrate Factories compared to othe methods of filtration, such as a DSB, Mud Filter or just Live Rock and Protein Skimming alone. But for use as current with no media? Sure thing, or as a Carbon holder again no problem, BUT if the carbon is left in too long it starts to colonize with Nitrosoma and Nitrobacter, releasing Nitrates.

Trace Elements removed from the water? Are these the elements located in the Skimmate? OR are you saying a Protein Skimmer can pull out Iodine, (great Iodine levels in ASW are WAY higher then NSW anyway) Strontium, Magnesium, Manganese, Iron, and of Course Calcium. That is one thing I have never seen in a single review of any skimmer.

And I'm not saying you have not had success, Heck I had success with an UNDERGRAVEL filter, but those are VERY few and far between today.

Just my .02

My first statement was just referring to getting the BIGGEST BADDEST skimmer possible, which I don't believe is the "Best" way to go. Back in college, I worked in a number of aquarium shops, and one thing I found was that people are constantly pushed into getting the most hi-tech piece of equipment in order to succeed. I was just putting out some other information so that nelson could make up his own mind.
As for what's removed from a system by a skimmer, it does change salinity over time as well as most trace elements like you listed above, and (as we both agree) plankton. Basically almost anything in the water is attracted to the surface of the bubble in the skimming colum. I've read this in many books, magazine articles and online articles.....I'd have to look up my references, but I believe The Reef Aquarium Vol.1 (Julian Sprung) is one. Of course, most reef keepers constantly add elements and check salinity, so these aren't major issues.
When I recommened the canister filter, I basically meant it for use with carbon, as a chemical filter and some added water current. The benefits (as I see them) of a canister filter/w carbon (my fav is the HOT Magnum) compared to a skimmer is:
1)quieter
2)removes the same organic compounds as a skimmer
3)doesn't change salinity (no matter how minutely)
4)doesn't affect plankton populations
5)no adjustments needed to function (as in fiddling with venturi valves or limewood airstones)
6)removes colors and tanins from the water (the yellowing affect caused by algae)
Sure, the canister filter w/carbon doesn't leave a cup of stinky scum, but it removes the scum just the same.
It has the possibility of becoming a "nitrate factory", but you'd really have to ignore it for awhile.

The one thing that would make a skimmer superior to carbon use, would be the use of ozone, which completely oxidizes organic matter, increasing the skimmer's efficiency.

Almost any setup can have success like you stated, but by no means does having the biggest skimmer increase your chances.