I don't understand "in-sump"

[robvia]

I am a little confused with some terminology. I’m new to this so don’t laugh too hard.

I see filters and things that are mounted either “hang-on” or “in-sump.” I thought that the term in-sump meant external to the tank. I thought of this as a canister filter that was sealed and water gets pumped from the tank to the filter and back from the filter to the tank by one pump. This means no open water and hopefully no leaks.

I am working on getting a protein skimmer. I chose the seaclone 150. Looks like a nice unit. People have given it good reviews. Not to expensive. Can be mounted hang-on or in-sump. I have a 90 gallon tank, so this seems like a great choice to me.

Now I have the thing and I’m not seeing what I expected. The skimmer pumps water up the tube and then water spills out from the top. That’s what I would expect in the hanging mode. HOW DO I PUMP WATER BACK TO THE TANK IF IT SPILLS OUT INTO THE CABINET UNDER MY TANK?

I have been looking thru some pictures of people’s equipment. It seems that people have a separate tank that gets water pumped to it, the filters do their thing, and the water gets pumped back. I understand the principle. I think it would take a tremendous amount of water movement to and from the external tank to make this work. I would think it would be very easy to get dead spots in your tank where water flow is not good.

Is my understanding of the process right?

Here are my problems. The way the lid of my tank is made, I can’t hang anything over the edge. I can run piping to and from the tank to get as much water flow as I need. I can design a system that will create flow in the tank and circulate well. I’m not worried about that. The lid is decorative and I don’t want to make a new one that would allow for hang-on filters. I also want all the pumps in the cabinet below to keep down on noise. The tank is in my living room and about 2 feet behind the couch that I spend most of my time on.

Am I confused and “in-sump” means that the unit can be placed in the tank where the fish are?

If the external tank theory I have is correct, how do you keep the right amount of water going to and from the tank. If the external tank is not sealed, I don’t see how you can pump the same amount of water both ways. They will always be a little different and that will cause the other tank to either fill up or drain dry. What am I missing? Is there a water level sensor that turns the pump on and off to maintain the level?

Please help!
Rob

[cubalz]

Well, first things first. "In sump" means that the piece of equipment (whatever it is) is meant to be placed in a sump (we/dry filter) that is placed in your aquarium cabinet. "Hang on" means that the piece of equipment is meant to be hung on the back or side of your tank.

As far as Sea Clones go, they can be used either way. If you want it to hang on your tank then what you do is attach the "J" tube to the bottom of the skimmer tower, next hang that water spill lip onto your tank rim to direct all of the water back into the tank. Now connect the suction cup base onto the power head and then connect the power head to the end of the "J" tube that is pointing into the tank, Now attach the power head to the tank with the suction cup base. Lastly attach the venturi onto the Power head intake and then the Pre filter. After it is all hooked up you will see that the power head sucks in the water through the "J" tube into the skimmer body and then out the lip and into the tank. Turn it on and adjust the Air valve per the instructions. No Sweat!
I have had a couple of these before I started keeping big tanks, Sea Clones work fairly well on tanks 40 gals and below.
Hope this helps,
John

I am a little confused with some terminology. I’m new to this so don’t laugh too hard.

I see filters and things that are mounted either “hang-on” or “in-sump.” I thought that the term in-sump meant external to the tank. I thought of this as a canister filter that was sealed and water gets pumped from the tank to the filter and back from the filter to the tank by one pump. This means no open water and hopefully no leaks.

I am working on getting a protein skimmer. I chose the seaclone 150. Looks like a nice unit. People have given it good reviews. Not to expensive. Can be mounted hang-on or in-sump. I have a 90 gallon tank, so this seems like a great choice to me.

Now I have the thing and I’m not seeing what I expected. The skimmer pumps water up the tube and then water spills out from the top. That’s what I would expect in the hanging mode. HOW DO I PUMP WATER BACK TO THE TANK IF IT SPILLS OUT INTO THE CABINET UNDER MY TANK?

I have been looking thru some pictures of people’s equipment. It seems that people have a separate tank that gets water pumped to it, the filters do their thing, and the water gets pumped back. I understand the principle. I think it would take a tremendous amount of water movement to and from the external tank to make this work. I would think it would be very easy to get dead spots in your tank where water flow is not good.

Is my understanding of the process right?

Here are my problems. The way the lid of my tank is made, I can’t hang anything over the edge. I can run piping to and from the tank to get as much water flow as I need. I can design a system that will create flow in the tank and circulate well. I’m not worried about that. The lid is decorative and I don’t want to make a new one that would allow for hang-on filters. I also want all the pumps in the cabinet below to keep down on noise. The tank is in my living room and about 2 feet behind the couch that I spend most of my time on.

Am I confused and “in-sump” means that the unit can be placed in the tank where the fish are?

If the external tank theory I have is correct, how do you keep the right amount of water going to and from the tank. If the external tank is not sealed, I don’t see how you can pump the same amount of water both ways. They will always be a little different and that will cause the other tank to either fill up or drain dry. What am I missing? Is there a water level sensor that turns the pump on and off to maintain the level?

Please help!
Rob

[Poseidon]

To answer your other question, Yes you can establish a balance between water coming in and water going out of the sump. You use valves. I have a MAG 12 that I use as a return. It moves close to 1000GPH and my overflow is rated for about 1200. So I have valves on both. I have my overflow valve closed ever so slightly, and I am able to keep a good balance in the sump. The cool part is the water that evaporates lowers the level in the sump, not the main tank so my waterline in the display tank is always the same.

[OCSREEFER]

Just wanted to add a few questions to this post...

I have a Empor 400 would really like to get rid of all my
hang on equipement on the back also... (as does Bob)

So, the Mag 12 is just pumps the water back to the tank.
If this pump shut off (power problems) the over flow will stop at a set level, cannot continue to siphon water down to your sump tank.?

Then in mine and in Bob's case the heater, protein skimmer, filter, or whatever can all be set up on this sump tank out of site...?

Does anyone have any suggestions on designs or brands of overflows that would work the best for our tank set ups...

Thanks
Nick

[Poseidon]

I like the CPR overflows. They do not protude into the tank very far. Down side, they need to be connected to a powerhead to keep the air out. (Hard to explain.) Look at CPR's site, they have a good description of the operation.

[OCSREEFER]

Mike, Thanks for the info.You have said your are using the Mag 12 for a return pump..

I have a 55 gal and Bob has a 90 gal tank...
What size tank are you running this Mag 12 setup in..?
Would you think we need to go with this size of pump?
I looked at the CPR overflows and will probly pick one up, I was just trying to figure how much flow is going to be overkill...?

on a side note, could I still use my Empor 400 hang on filter in my sump?
or should I switch to a caniter type?

Thanks
Nick

[Poseidon]

I like the MAG eries in general. I have a 135, but I think you could run the 12 on both the 55 and a 90, just make more then 1 return into the tank. THis will decrease VELOCITY, but maintain VOLUME, and volume is what you are after.

As far as the overflows go, I have the 1 with 2 1" drains. I actually think that one move more water then the 1 with a single 1 1/2 drain, even though CPR states otherwise. My friend Matt has the 1 1/2 model and it sure doesn't look like it is flowing like mine des. I would move as much water as you can, it sure won't hurt anything.