Replacing sand in established tank

[GoinSalt]

When setting up my tank, I looked around for southdown sand at my local HD and Lowes. Couldn't find any and went with regular play sand.

It's ok although it tends to stay clumped up.

Now, two months later, I finally found some "beach" sand. I want to add it to my 100 gal. FOWLR tank, but should I take out the old sand or just throw the new sand over the top? What about my narcissus (sp?) snails that bury themselves? Would they be able to dig their way out?

I only have one 20 lb bag of sand in there right now, so it's definitely not a DSB.

Any suggestions?

Nate

[wanareef]

On the beach sand- did you get it straight from the beach? I would not use it, not knowing what's in it, the type of polution that is in it ect .... . The best would be Arrgonite, then the Southdown or go BB.

just my .02

[Poseidon]

If it is only 20lbs I would take it out and start over... It will be a PITA but using the right type of sand will make a HUGE difference in the overall health of your tank. Southdown has buffering capabilities that the play sand does not...

[Ninong]

When setting up my tank, I looked around for southdown sand at my local HD and Lowes. Couldn't find any and went with regular play sand.

Southdown is usually only available on the East Coast.

It's ok although it tends to stay clumped up.

That's strange, especially since you have so little sand in your tank. Personally I don't care for quartz sand in a reef tank but many well known people in the hobby have used it for years without problems.

Now, two months later, I finally found some "beach" sand.

There is no way to respond to this comment without knowing exactly what you mean by "beach" sand. From which beach? Did you collect it yourself? If you collected it yourself, it may be beneficial in that some of the infauna may survive in your tank. You always run the risk that it could be contaminated with tar from fuel spills, chemicals from terrestrial runoff, etc.

I want to add it to my 100 gal. FOWLR tank, but should I take out the old sand or just throw the new sand over the top? What about my narcissus (sp?) snails that bury themselves? Would they be able to dig their way out?

If you intend going with quartz sand, just add more to your existing sand bed but do not add more than a 1/2" layer at a time. Then wait a few days before adding more. Yes, your Nassarius snails are able to dig their way out better than most creatures in your sand bed but if you add too thick a layer of new sand all at once you will smother and crush some of the other beneficial infauna that you may already have, although 20-lbs in a 100-gal tank doesn't sound like much at all.

Any suggestions?

I personally do not like terrestrial sand beds in marine tanks. Considering the cost of everything else that goes into a fully equipped reef tank, the sand bed is a very inexpensive component. I would go with an aragonite sand bed regardless of the cost. If Southdown is not available, you would have to consider the more expensive aragonite sands that are available. ESV sells a very nice fine particle oolitic sand and Carib-Sea offers a variety of sands. Choose the finer grain stuff for 90% of your sand bed. You would not need to remove the existing 20 lbs. of quartz sand that is already in your tank. You could, but it's not absolutely necessary.

[GoinSalt]

I didn't get the sand myself at the beach. I found a bag of it at the lfs, it says "monterey beach sand" on the bag, as well as "kiln dried" and "may contain cilica that may be harmful if inhaled," blah, blah.

[GoinSalt]

Also, would I have to take everything out of the tank (fish.LR,etc) before putting more sand in or could I just work around everything?

[Ninong]

I didn't get the sand myself at the beach. I found a bag of it at the lfs, it says "monterey beach sand" on the bag, as well as "kiln dried" and "may contain cilica that may be harmful if inhaled," blah, blah.

I lived in Monterey for two years, 1980-1981. Monterey's beaches are just plain old quartz sand. If you collected it yourself just below the tide line, you might have obtained some beneficial microfauna but you might have also gotten some tar. Pollution from ships is common all along the Monterey-Big Sur coastline. If it is "kiln dried," then it is just plain old dead quartz sand. The reason for the warning about silica being harmful if inhaled is because of Prop. 65 and because of the fact that silica dust is carcinogenic if inhaled.

[Ninong]

Also, would I have to take everything out of the tank (fish.LR,etc) before putting more sand in or could I just work around everything?

Whichever is easier for you. You can do it either way but if you are going to take everything out, why not just start over with a nice aragonite sand bed?

If you are going to add more sand gradually -- no more than a 1/2" layer at a time -- then I guess you will be leaving everything in the tank and "working around everything."

[GoinSalt]

I lived in Monterey for two years, 1980-1981. Monterey's beaches are just plain old quartz sand. If you collected it yourself just below the tide line, you might have obtained some beneficial microfauna but you might have also gotten some tar. Pollution from ships is common all along the Monterey-Big Sur coastline. If it is "kiln dried," then it is just plain old dead quartz sand. The reason for the warning about silica being harmful if inhaled is because of Prop. 65 and because of the fact that silica dust is carcinogenic if inhaled.

So it's no better than regular HD play sand?

[Ninong]

So it's no better than regular HD play sand?

If you are asking if it is different in any way, no it is not. The particle sizes may or may not be similar but they are both just regular quartz sand (SiO2).

I prefer calcareous sand (calcium carbonate based) for a saltwater aquarium myself but I do know folks who have used regular quartz sand. If the quartz sand is relatively pure and not contaminated with a lot of feldspar and other silicate compounds other than SiO2, you should be OK. Quartz will not dissolve in saltwater, feldspar could dissolve a little.

I guess they get to charge more for it by calling it "Monterey Beach" sand? I wonder if they really and truly get it there? Maybe they're just scooping it from the dunes in Sand City? I know of some hobbyists who have collected their own live sand from the beach along the central coast but they are doing that in hopes of getting some actual marine life in the sand and they try to collect it wet and get it home as fast as possible. That can be risky so it all depends on your tolerance for risk. Probably helps to have good eyesight and a keen sense of smell, too.

P.S. -- Where are you in California? Just go to Ocean Beach or Stinson Beach and collect your own.

P.P.S. -- Obviously not all the marine life in the sand that you collect there will survive the 25 degree Fahrenheit increase in temperature once it gets into your tank but at least the bacteria will and maybe even some of the microfauna, too.

[GoinSalt]

If you are asking if it is different in any way, no it is not. The particle sizes may or may not be similar but they are both just regular quartz sand (SiO2).

I prefer calcareous sand (calcium carbonate based) for a saltwater aquarium myself but I do know folks who have used regular quartz sand. If the quartz sand is relatively pure and not contaminated with a lot of feldspar and other silicate compounds other than SiO2, you should be OK. Quartz will not dissolve in saltwater, feldspar could dissolve a little.

I guess they get to charge more for it by calling it "Monterey Beach" sand? I wonder if they really and truly get it there? Maybe they're just scooping it from the dunes in Sand City? I know of some hobbyists who have collected their own live sand from the beach along the central coast but they are doing that in hopes of getting some actual marine life in the sand and they try to collect it wet and get it home as fast as possible. That can be risky so it all depends on your tolerance for risk. Probably helps to have good eyesight and a keen sense of smell, too.

P.S. -- Where are you in California? Just go to Ocean Beach or Stinson Beach and collect your own.

P.P.S. -- Obviously not all the marine life in the sand that you collect there will survive the 25 degree Fahrenheit increase in temperature once it gets into your tank but at least the bacteria will and maybe even some of the microfauna, too.

I'm in the East Bay Area. All the coast is about an hour from me. I can hit Santa Cruz, Half Moon Bay or Ocean Beach in about an hour.

Do people just collect sand from the beach? Is there any kind of law regarding collection of sand? (THis being Cali, there are usually stupid-ass laws like that).

I'm not really looking for any marine life in the sand, per se, its just that that play sand I have in there isn't very natural looking. I was hoping some type of beach sand might help the appearance. My tank isn't bad looking now, but I think it would look 10x better with more natural sea sand.

Since I was anxious to get the tank up and running, my budget didn't really allow me a couple hundred bucks for the "right" kind of sand. But if I can just get sand from the beach ...


Thanks for all the help and feedback.

Nate

[Ninong]

I'm in the East Bay Area. All the coast is about an hour from me. I can hit Santa Cruz, Half Moon Bay or Ocean Beach in about an hour.

Do people just collect sand from the beach? Is there any kind of law regarding collection of sand? (THis being Cali, there are usually stupid-ass laws like that).

I have heard of people simply collecting sand from the beach in California but it is NOT something that I would want to do because of the contamination. You seem to think that the quartz sand on the beach is somehow more natural than the quartz sand in the bags at the home improvement stores. It's the same stuff. It's probably cheaper to just buy it at the local Home Depot than to fight traffic to get to the beach and back. If you want to use silica sand, just buy it at the store instead of scooping it up at the beach.

I really don't know if you could get busted for taking sand from a California beach or not. I guess I just never thought about that when I lived there. I know it's against the law to take any samples from Hawaii's black beaches.

I'm not really looking for any marine life in the sand, per se, its just that that play sand I have in there isn't very natural looking. I was hoping some type of beach sand might help the appearance. My tank isn't bad looking now, but I think it would look 10x better with more natural sea sand.

You're really saying that you want the looks of white calcareous calcium carbonate based sand. You will NOT see any difference in your tank between quartz sand from a bag or quartz sand from a beach in Monterey. BTW, I would be willing to bet you that the "Monterey Beach" sand comes from Sand City. I have never seen any commercial operations scooping sand from the actual beaches down there.

But if I can just get sand from the beach ...

It will cost you more in gas for your car to get sand from the beach than it would to simply buy the same stuff at the store.