Help with Saltwater mix

[boots]

Over the last week my tank and its inhabitants are looking worse and worse. I checked my water parameters and was surprised to discover my pH was 7.8. I quickly mixed up a batch of salt mix for a water change, let the powerhead mix it for about 12 hours and on a whim decided to check the pH. It is also about 7.8. I began wondering if it's possible this salt mix is mixing up at a low pH. I'm using the new Oceanic salt mix. Has anyone ever had this problem? What is the pH of your salt mix after its been mixed? I'm thinking seriously about changing brands.
I can't decide between Tropic Marin or the Crystal Seas Bioassay salt. I'm really thinking this Oceanic salt isn't mixing up to the right pH.

[Reefland]

What about just trying to raise the pH with a buffer? before adding it to the tank?

[boots]

What about just trying to raise the pH with a buffer? before adding it to the tank?

Yeah, I tried that. Actually the pH was a lot lower to begin with, so I added Seachem 8.3 buffer and let it mix for I guess about 6 hours. AFTER that is when I took the 7.8 pH reading. What should the ideal pH be?

[Reefland]

I would be comfortable with 8.1 - 8.4 personally.

[Ninong]

I'm not sure I have read about this sort of problem before. Many artificial salt mixes will mix up to a high pH (higher than NSW pH, which is approximately 8.25). Are you sure your measurements are correct?

Oceanic is a new brand of salt. I have read many different posts by many different people who have tried it. Most of the posts concerned very high calcium content. I don't remember reading anything about low pH.

I really don't know much about this salt. I have no idea where it is manufactured. I have no idea what they are adding (if anything) to make it dissolve rapidly. I have no idea why some people are reporting calcium levels above 500 ppm. I have no idea if it contains a chelator of any kind. I have no idea what specific gravity the manufacturer is using to run their test measurements but someone posted on another board that they are using 1.020 - 1.021 SG for their tests, which seems odd to me if they are attempting to duplicate NSW.

My only advice would be to make sure of your measurements and if you are sure that you are getting a pH of only 7.8, you should consider a different brand of salt. I don't think I would be interested in using a salt mix that mixed up to less than 8.2 pH.

P.S. -- I'm using Crystal Sea Marinemix Bioassay Laboratory Formula myself but I have never used anything else. If you decide to switch to this brand of salt from any other brand, I advise you to do so very, very slowly because some people have experienced problems switching from Instant Ocean to Crystal Sea. Some people have made the switch with no problems at all but others have reported problems. Therefore, I think it would be prudent for anyone switching to this brand to do so very, very gradually just to be on the safe side.

[GoinSalt]

Although this is only my first SW tank, I use the Oceanic salt and have had no problems with ph, which runs between 8.0 and 8.2 when I do my water changes.

Nate

[da colts]

i have always used crystal sea( they used to be forty fathoms) and i have never has a problem in 17 years. we use tropic marin at the lfs i wrok for because it dissolves so quickly as it is a powder as opposed to a crystal and we sell pre mixed salt water and we need it to dissolve quickly. so either tropic marin or crystal sea would do very well. i tried a 50 gal mix of oceanic and it was ok but not reason enough for me to switch salt mixes, so i am going to stay with crystal sea.

[soxley2k]

i have always used crystal sea( they used to be forty fathoms) and i have never has a problem in 17 years. we use tropic marin at the lfs i wrok for because it dissolves so quickly as it is a powder as opposed to a crystal and we sell pre mixed salt water and we need it to dissolve quickly. so either tropic marin or crystal sea would do very well. i tried a 50 gal mix of oceanic and it was ok but not reason enough for me to switch salt mixes, so i am going to stay with crystal sea.

i must agree with da colts i used one brand call instant ocean and thats like a cyrstal and it took about 1-2 days to desolve and that was only for 60L worth i then went out and got a bag of reef cyrstals and had to put about half a bag in and that was gone in about 3h and now p.h is about 8.2 so i would say try to get the salt that is more like powder as it goes quickly

[Samper]

Ninong, when you mix up a batch of Crystal sea for a water change what differences in the params are there between IO and the Crystal Sea Lab formula? Are the levels always consistant cause I usually test my IO and the ph, Ca and alk are always different. Sometimes the Ca varies by 50 or so ppm and I'd like to switch to something a little more stable if possible.

[Ninong]

Samper,

I have never used Instant Ocean so I have no personal experience with it to compare with my Crystal Sea Marinemix Bioassay Laboratory Formula. You can do a search on Reef Central under "Instant Ocean" and get hundreds and hundreds of threads. Most people who have used it for a long time seem satisfied with it but there have been a few threads that related to problems with extremely high alkalinity. That was probably the result of a bad batch. Randy Holmes-Farley, and others, have reported a white chalky buildup on the walls of the mixing container using Instant Ocean but I'm not sure what that's all about.

I only tested my CS Bioassay three or four times and that was about a year ago. Calcium was testing around 390 ppm and alk was testing around 14 to 15 dKH. I believe I tested it for Mg once and got 1150 ppm. I wouldn't put much stock in those alkalinity numbers because I was using a small, portable D.I. unit and not a full R.O./D.I. setup. I have tested my tank water many times and my calcium is always between 425 - 475 ppm (using only limewater) and my alk is always between 10 - 11 dKH. Since both of those numbers are exactly where I like them, I haven't bothered testing the freshly made up saltwater in a very long time but I may do that once I open my new box, which is supposed to be the new and improved formulation. Unfortunately, I still haven't set up my 5-stage R.O./D.I. unit yet; I'm still using up the D.I. cartridges with the portable D.I. unit. The biggest reason for that, besides procrastination, is that I don't have a place inside the house to set up the unit. I may have to set it up in the garage and haul the water back to the house and I hate that idea.

The only test that I was disappointed with was the magnesium test and I can't really say that it was a definitive test since I ran it only once on the mixing container water. I intend to do some more testing once I make up a batch using the new salt. I really don't know what the difference is but I have been told that it is a revised version. As I have posted before in other threads, I mix my saltwater for at least three or four days before using it. I no longer use a powerhead in the mixing container because that kept the particulate matter in suspension. I don't know what the particulate matter is but it is a light tan color and settles on the bottom of the mixing container after the first 36 - 48 hours of aeration when using just an airstone at the bottom of the Brute container. Mixing up a batch of approximately 18 gallons results in about one to two tablespoons of this extremely fine sandy looking stuff on the bottom. I leave the last gallon of water in the container so as not to disturb this stuff and then I empty it out when I clean out the container. I have never had any sort of chalky buildup anywhere in the container and I don't believe the sandy stuff would harm anything even if I didn't allow it to settle out.

I will be interested to see if the newest version of this salt mix has the same sort of residue or not.

P.S. -- I forgot to mention that I never test freshly made up saltwater (except for salinity) until after it has aged for three days.

[Ninong]

i must agree with da colts i used one brand call instant ocean and thats like a cyrstal and it took about 1-2 days to desolve and that was only for 60L worth i then went out and got a bag of reef cyrstals and had to put about half a bag in and that was gone in about 3h and now p.h is about 8.2 so i would say try to get the salt that is more like powder as it goes quickly

That's interesting because Instant Ocean and Reef Crystals are made in the same plant in Mentor, Ohio by the same manufacturer (Aquarium Systems) and the only differences that I am aware of are that Reef Crystals has more calcium and contains a chelator, EDTA.

[Samper]

I have been using the same container for about 5 months since I started using IO and haven't gotten the white chalky buildup on the sides. I do however get the fine sandy looking substance to settle out. My powerhead keeps the water swirling in a 5 gallon bucket and i always get maybe half a tsp to settle in the middle. You say you don't believe this is any concern and I don't either but for the record I don't use the bottom inch of the water so I don't know. I'm gonna post on RC to Dr. Farley and see if we can't find out what this is.

[Ninong]

It is probably clay.

[Samper]

What makes you say that?

[Ninong]

Just a wild guess. I have no idea what it is to tell you the truth but I read something in a thread in the Chemistry Forum on RC a couple of years back where someone said that some manufacturers add clay as an anti-caking agent.

[Samper]

This is what Dr. Farley said.

"It could be many things, depending on the salt mix, the source water, and other factors. Calcium and magnesium carbonate are likely the bulk of it, but it may be a lot of other thigns too, such as anti-caking agents, and many insoluble metals, including aluminum.

Personally, I wouldn't add it (and don't)."