[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

If your freshly mixed saltwater measures up to 390-410ppm and all you use is limewater how in the heck to you get your levels up to 425-475ppm? This is what I don't get...

I drip limewater every night to replace evaporation and my calcium stays right around 450-475 ppm and my alk stays right around 10-11 dKH. One time I went to California for 10 days and I didn't trust my brother-in-law to drip limewater, so nothing was added except plain D.I. freshwater during that period. When I got back, the calcium measured 375 ppm and the alk was 8 dKH. After that I decided to show him how to dose B-Ionic while I was gone and that's what he did when I went on my next vacation. I could get a calcium reactor but it would have to be located outside the stand and I hate the thought of having to deal with that.

[Samper]

But does the limewater you drip raise your Ca levels cause mine doesn't?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

But does the limewater you drip raise your Ca levels cause mine doesn't?

It raises both calcium and alkalinity levels. I vary the amount of calcium hydroxide powder (Mrs. Wages) that I mix per gallon of freshwater depending on whether I want to raise the levels or not. Usually I use only one teaspoon per gallon of water but if I want to raise things, I increase that to two teaspoons per gallon.

That won't work for everyone. It depends on your tank's calcium demand. If necessary, you could always supplement your limewater with additions of B-Ionic or similar. Tanks that are densely populated will reach a point where limewater alone is not sufficient to maintain calcium levels. In extreme situations, you may have to employ large calcium reactors and limewater and occasional doses of calcium chloride. Wayne Shang's 718-gal SPS dominated tank with a very large number of Tridacna spp. clams has such a high calcium demand that in spite of the fact that he is running two monster 42" tall calcium reactors and a Kalkwasser reactor, he still adds an occasional dose of calcium chloride.

[Samper]

I was under the impression that adding more Kalk powder didn't do anything since there is only so much that can dissolve per gallon of water.....isn't this how nielsen reactors work? You just put a ton of kalk in it and it mixes it up, settles it out then drips it into the sump or whatever then mixes again as necessary?

This whole concept I'm not getting and why I still understand why that guy asked if reefers are trying to become elite. My salt mix doesn't contain enough Ca, dripping 2 litres per day of limewater doesn't raise the levels to where I want them and there is only so much that can dissolve per gallon hence I have to add 2 part additives.

Sometimes I overthink a simple concept so please enlighten me.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Samper

I was under the impression that adding more Kalk powder didn't do anything since there is only so much that can dissolve per gallon of water...

You are confusing apples and oranges here. There is only a certain amount of calcium hydroxide that can be dissolved per gallon of freshwater -- 2 teaspoons per gallon equals saturation. You can get 3 tsps per gallon by adding 3 Tbsp (45 ml) of vinegar per gallon. There is a drawback to that approach in that the vinegar would also dissolve some of the impurities that would otherwise precipitate. I played around with adding 1 Tbsp of vinegar per gallon of freshwater just for fun but dropped that idea after a few days because I really didn't need stronger limewater.

All of that, however, has nothing to do with raising the levels of calcium and alkalinity in your aquarium. You can raise your calcium and alkalinity to your heart's content or until the calcium begins to precipitate, whichever comes first. Exactly when calcium begins to precipitate depends on your pH and your alkalinity, but it could begin to precipitate at anything above 550 ppm.

..isn't this how nielsen reactors work? You just put a ton of kalk in it and it mixes it up, settles it out then drips it into the sump or whatever then mixes again as necessary?

They work exactly the same way you mix limewater in any container except that you start out with much too much calcium hydroxide. It settles to the bottom of the container. The water above is saturated -- it contains 2 tsps of calcium hydroxide per gallon of water. That water is slowly added to your aquarium. It is replaced by incoming R.O./D.I. water. A magnetic stirrer at the bottom of the container stirs the solution for maybe half a minute at preset intervals -- once every several hours or whatever you select. This causes the water above the sediment to become saturated again.

This whole concept I'm not getting and why I still understand why that guy asked if reefers are trying to become elite.

There is no way that I can respond to this comment without losing my cool. Let's just say that the word "elite" has been misused over the past couple of decades by people of a certain political persuasion. I'm surprised that they use it at all, considering that it is French and they all seem to hate the French with such a passion in spite of the fact that the French greatly assisted us in winning our independence!

My salt mix doesn't contain enough Ca, dripping 2 litres per day of limewater doesn't raise the levels to where I want them and there is only so much that can dissolve per gallon hence I have to add 2 part additives.

I answered this question previously in this thread in great detail.

[Samper]

Thanks Ninong, First lighting had me way too confused and now this. Your replies have helped and you can bet I'll be reading this thread over and over until I understand completely.

Thanks again
Chuck

[Ninong]

Read Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley's recent article for a complete explanation of limewater: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm

Read his article on how to select a calcium and alkalinity supplementation scheme: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

Read his article on solving calcium and alkalinity problems: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

And, since the topic of this thread is supposed to be Oceanic salt mix, here is an interesting thread that discusses that exact topic: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=1

[Samper]

I'm on it first thing tomorrow.

It's funny actually not but anyway......, just when I think I understand something about this hobby a curve ball is thrown at me, then when my base coach helps me figure out the pitcher a substitute steps in and he throws sliders.....

gotta love it

[spankerbob]

I have used both IO and Oceanic, and heve seen no real differance in the actual blend, a few different levels here and there, but if you read the trace element break down that aqua systems did on the different types of synthetic mixes you would be amazed that tropic marin and oceanic have trace amount of lead, which to my knowlege is never good for any living thing, I have gone back to IO for that simple fact I am thinking of trying reef crystals because of that same publication, which is funded by the company that makes IO and Reef Crystals, but it still seemed credible,

[dougc]

I have been using Oceanic since setting up my tank last Spring and have decided, based on the controversy surrounding this salt and my own observations, to try switching to IO.

Although I have not found phosphates in newly mixed Oceanic (as some have), I have had more than my share of nuisance algaes, including hair, bryopsis, red fluff, etc. The glass in the tank accumulates a film of diatoms in less than 24 hours. More important, I just didn't feel like I was seeing enough growth in corals that had been the tank for over 6 months. I went out last weekend and bought a bucket of Instant Ocean, which is now about the same price as Oceanic.

I did my first water change last weekend with the IO. Already, my Calcium dropped from 410, where it has been for months, to 390. My alkalinity has jumped from its normal 7.5-8.5 to 9.6. I expected some increase in alk with IO, but not this much with only one water change. Call me crazy, but it seems like my glass is staying cleaner, too.

I will see how the tank looks after running through this bucket, which should take around 2 months. If it looks better, I will be trying to find a home for the unopened bucket of Oceanic that is sitting in my garage.

[Ninong]

Doug,

Have you thought about testing your saltwater before you add it to your tank? See what you get in the way of calcium and alkalinity readings and then compare that with your tank's parameters.

I'm using a different brand of salt mix but I usually test the first batch from each box just to see what I get.

[dougc]

I have not personally tested for calcium and alk, but others have. IO, from what I have read, runs about 380 calcium and a higher alk than Oceanic (can't find a number, but I will test my next batch). Oceanic runs higher in calcium (~500) and lower alk (7 dkh).

I will test the next batch of IO. For the heck of it, I will mix up some Oceanic at the same time and test that, too. That will be on Saturday.

[bkelley02]

Seems like most everyone is using either IO or Oceanic. Does anyone use Reef Crystals? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

[goldfishees]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Kevin,

Does anyone know if Aquarium Systems is still making Kent in Mentor, Ohio?

I live 15 min. away from Mentor and I don't think there is any factories their now. I could wrong.

[Gizmo232]

Originally Posted by orion25

Is there anyone using Oceanic Sea Salt? I used to use Instant Ocean but I decided to try Oceanic today because of the sealed container it comes in. It is much easier to store in that jug than the IO bag.

Please let me know what kind of experiences you have had with this salt. I have done only 1 5g water change with the Oceanic thus far.

Thanks

I have never used anything else.. I have used Oceanic sea salt for over a year now and love it. It dissolves VERY nice I love it

[spankerbob]

I used oceanic and IO, The only thing that disturbs me about the oceanic is the high amount of lead. Beyond that I had no problems with it, like wise with the IO, but I read an article about the different commercially aviable salts and it came to the comclusion that short of actual ocean water not collected near the shore or a boat ( phosphates, and lead from the diesel) that the best salt for proliferating life in an aquarium was this marine mix bioassy formula, which is not that expensive $29.99 for 150 gallons worth but the shipping to me was $40. But anyway that is what I am using now, so I will let you know in a few months how it works.