DSB sand source and depth...

[mdrury]

Hi, Still in the process of setting up my 120 gallon pentagon aquarium. I would like to run a deep sand bed but I am having a hard time locating a suitable "cheap" sand. I know the LFS carry the CaribSea substrates, but I can't really afford to pay their prices. Looks like I will need about 240 lbs to create a 4" deep bed. I have called Home Depot and Lowes but they don't seem to carry silicate free play sand. Any suggestions (Reefland)?

Does 4" sound like a good depth? Suggestions, opinions, etc? Thanks.

[Reefland]

You might try to go to the Home Depot on Preston Hwy in Okolona, they've been known to have Southdown Playsand. ;)

[mdrury]

Called HD on Preston. They only carry the Quikrete brand of play sand. The man on the phone could not tell me if it was silicate free or not. Any opinion? I plan on purchasing some live sand from Aquatica, but I don't want to spend $120 on sand.

[Ninong]

Called HD on Preston. They only carry the Quikrete brand of play sand. The man on the phone could not tell me if it was silicate free or not. Any opinion? I plan on purchasing some live sand from Aquatica, but I don't want to spend $120 on sand.

I don't understand your use of the term "silicate free?"

Southdown Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean (aka Yardright Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean and Oldcastle Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean) is aragonite sand, so obviously it is silicate-free by definition. It is calcareous sand, not quartz based terrestrial sand.

The more common play sand is quartz sand. The Quikrete brand is quartz sand. That means it IS silica, so it can't possibly be "silicate-free." Terrestrial sand is SiO2, aragonite sand is CaCO3. The people who advocate deep sand beds for reef tanks claim that either sand is acceptable. Obviously the silica sand will not have the buffering capacity that the calcareous sand would have but it is supposedly OK to use. I would not use it myself because I'm not that sure that it wouldn't have a certain amount of feldspar or other silica compounds that actually do dissolve in seawater.

If I couldn't find Southdown aragonite sand, I would purchase some other aragonite sand. I wouldn't use quartz sand but many people actually do use it. Just not me, that's all.

[Ninong]

Called HD on Preston. They only carry the Quikrete brand of play sand. The man on the phone could not tell me if it was silicate free or not.

The man on the phone is obviously not all that bright.

[Reefland]

None of them actually know what they carry, your best bet is to stop by and look in the garden center. They may or may not have it, I am unsure. If you cannot find the Southdown (or Yardright), I would go with Carib-Sea; they should have it available at Aquatica. I know it will be expensive, but if your going with a DSB, using it opposed to something that your unsure of would be better.

[mdrury]

I agree with everything both of you have said. Thanks Ninong and Reefland for your replies. I have to go to Home Depot anyway to pick up some plumbing parts I need so I will look for myself.

Thanks Ninong for pointing out that the Quikrete sand is NOT what I am looking for. I will stay away from that for sure.

[Ninong]

Thanks Ninong for pointing out that the Quikrete sand is NOT what I am looking for. I will stay away from that for sure.

Well, it's not what I would be looking for but some of the DSB advocates say it is OK to use. I just wouldn't want to use it for a number of reasons. For one thing, I think a white sand bed looks more marine-like than a tan sand bed.

The three brand names that I listed above are all aragonite (calcareous) sand but when in doubt, do the vinegar test. Just carry a small bottle of vinegar with you and if you come across some white sand that they claim is aragonite sand, test it with the vinegar. Since vinegar is a weak acid, just drop a pinch of sand into a tablespoon of vinegar and see if it fizzes. (Or pour a few drops of vinegar on some of the sand that has "accidentally" leaked from the bag.) If it is CaCO3 sand, it will react and release CO2 (gas). If it doesn't fizz, don't buy it.

[mdrury]

Well, I went ahead and bit the bullet. I ordered 230 lbs of substrate for my tank. (2) 40 lbs bag of Florida crushed coral, (2) 40 lbs bags of 1-2 mm Aragonite and (2) 30 lbs bags of sugar sized Aragamax. Cost: about $200.

I have 200 lbs of premium live rock (fiji, tonga, florida) on the way. Should arrive about October 9th. Hope I have everything else ready by then...

[Reefland]

I would be a bit concerned about the crushed coral.

[mdrury]

Why the concern? I order the items from Todd today, that is what he recommended...

[Reefland]

The crushed coral is going to work it's way to the surface of the bed, and therefore your taking the risk of the detritus falling through and not being pushed through the sandbed and processed correctly. It's almost like having an entire crushed coral sandbed since these larger particles will always work their way to the surface. You would have been better off with another bag of each of the finer sand.

[mdrury]

If this were to happen and all of the fine stuff fell through the larger stuff, the detritus would still need to work through something before it reached the bottom of the sandbed, thus processed. No?

I talk to several people, and they all recommending that I do add some type of larger substrate to make sure the organisms in the sand can actually crawl through it. If it is all sugar or aragamax then the fine stuff will just cave in around them. Also all sugar is just going to blow around the tank with the current.

Finally, I really couldn't afford much more. I am already at $2800 in setup expenses and I haven't even added water yet. Expensive hobby :-)

[Reefland]

If the entire bed is fine sugar sand, detritus will lay on the top until something works it into the sand bed; stars crawling around the bed, snails moving around it, etc. If there is crushed coral on top of the fine sand and detritus falls through it, there is nothing that can work it into the sand bed to be processed and your stuck with the effects of an entire crushed coral sand bed.

You are correct about the sand storm caused by lots of flow in a tank with a DSB, it is a definite draw back to a DSB. Bacteria helps to bind the sand together a bit which helps slightly but it's still a problem. Adding crushed coral on top of it isn't a solution though. Sand dwelling organisms have no problem crawling through the sand either, again this is no reason to add crushed coral into the mix.

[mdrury]

What if I lay plastic screen over the crushed coral and then lay the 1-2 mm and sugar fine on top? That would prevent the larger stuff from working its way to the top, would it not?

[Reefland]

That would prevent it from moving up yes but that causes other problems by not allowing sand bed fauna to migrate throughout the entire sandbed. I would really suggest you go without the crushed coral if you cannot exchange it for fine grade sand and compromise the total depth of the bed a bit. Just my recommendation.

[Justler]

Try Southern States, they carry Yardright Tropical Play sand... Just have to wash it a bunch before you add it!

[Ram04]

What if I lay plastic screen over the crushed coral and then lay the 1-2 mm and sugar fine on top? That would prevent the larger stuff from working its way to the top, would it not?

What about using fiberglass screening between the 2 layers. I have my plenum setup with crushed coral/ screen/ and fine aragomax. 4 years and running, no problems. Just my input.

[saltjunkie]

Try Southern States, they carry Yardright Tropical Play sand... Just have to wash it a bunch before you add it!

when you wash it.. you wash out all the very fine particles that you really want.. i would never reccomend that..