A few more questions...

[SPC Ray]

Hello Reefland! I'd like to start by saying how appreciative I am for such a welcoming and knowledgable community Reefland sustains. Through reading past threads, searching for specific information, and posting my own questions I have started my saltwater experience in good spirits (though my wallet will soon be empty).
At any rate, I have put all the pieces of my reef setup puzzle together, and I have met some great and helpful people along the way. I'm new to the hobby, and fishkeeping altogether, but my lack of experience and knowledge is slowly being compensated for in the fact that I have been researching saltwater for months, obsessively if I may add.
I am just about ready to order a 90 G rectangular acrylic aquarium from Ostrom Mfg. I am getting two corner overflows drilled, and possibly a return, depending on what Jeff from Lifereef tells me (I don't know what kind of plumbing he is working on). With that, I am also having a custom sump/refugium with skimmer, built specifically for the demensions of my stand. I will have a float valve installed which will control a solenoid to turn on/off my RO/DI system. Down the road, I plan on purchasing a Calcium Reactor, probably from Lifereef as well.
As for my lighting, for my main tank I'm getting a Hamilton Tech. 48" retrokit, with two 10000ºK 250w MH bulbs, an electronic 250w ballast, and two 96w PC Actinic 03 bulbs. My system will be cooled by two, possibly four, IceCap variable speed fans, installed in my canopy. I'm still undecided on my lighting for my refugium, and I'm open for suggestions, though I'm leaning toward a 24" PC hood of some sort, on a reverse daylight schedule.
Now a couple of questions... I have looked all over the web, and found some georgous live rock, but it is expensive... I'm getting a re-enlistment bonus, so money isn't really the issue, but I don't want to purchase rock that is going to die off and look like the cheaper stuff... any suggestions?
Also, I want a DSB in my display tank and possibly my refugium. Should I spend the money on live rock, or will aragonite play sand work just as well?
Also, regarding my refugium... should I use sand or miracle mud? I've heard good things about both, but nothing comparing pros and cons of either. I also plan on putting some smaller frags of the rock I get into my refugium for added bio-filtration.
I have seen many "packages" offered on the web, including live rock, sand, and inverts to clean your tank. Is it worth it? In particular, a package from www.tampabaysaltwater.com looks very appealing. Is it worth the thousand dollars it costs?
I want to start my tank off right, and minimize my mistakes, so once again, any imput is appreciated. Thanks alot, and take care!

[Poseidon]

Should I spend the money on live rock, or will aragonite play sand work just as well?

Two different things, you need both. But yes, Aragonite play sand is much cheaper then buying the same stuff from a LFS. I bought 4 50lb bags of "Old Castle play sand from the carribean" for $28.00!!!

Also, regarding my refugium... should I use sand or miracle mud?

Sand, I think Miracle Mud has run it FAD stage, and people are back to the sand now. I have Sand in mine, my best friend has Mud. Both are tanks are almost identical as far as size and lighting the salt we use and such... I see no difference except Mud costs ALOT more!

I have seen many "packages" offered on the web, including live rock, sand, and inverts to clean your tank. Is it worth it? In particular, a package from www.tampabaysaltwater.com looks very appealing. Is it worth the thousand dollars it costs?

Yes and No If you buy play sand from Home Depot, then you won't need the sand. And Tampa Bay rock is much heavier then other "natural" rock available, so even though it looks cheaper per pound it actually works out to be about the same cost. Ninong has a link to where he bought his BEAUTIFUL rock, but I lost it when my computer crashed this last time... Maybe he can chime in, or you can read his thread... I'm sure it is in there SOMEWHERE here it is a HUGE THREAD!!! There are pictures of his rock all laid out on a table... It is GREAT looking stuff!

[Reefland]

Hi SPC Ray,

It sounds like you are making some great choices on equipment purchases! You will be pleased with the work that Jeff does. I think his skimmers could be updated to utilize the more commonly used methods used by others but they still do a great job.

On the liverock, the rock and place that Poseidon is mentioning is Kaelini liverock that was purcahsed from Palmetto Reefs, unfortunately they are no longer in business. Kaelini liverock can still be purchased from other shops though, both online and local. I asked Tood at Aquatica Reef in Louisville to order me some, which he did and kindly cured for me for ~5 weeks in his vats with an up-front payment. The rock was very nice and within 4 weeks in our tank, was very lively with lots of color. You might consider this route to avoid shipping costs and the pain (read smell and mess) of curing rock that travels.

For your sand, I think you should purchase dry aragonite sand and seed that with small amounts of livesand from lots of different places. Purchasing a pound or 2 from many different places will add to the diversity and make for a more effective live bed. As well, local reefers are often eager to give up a small cup to help a new guy.

[SPC Ray]

Hey guys, once again, thanks... the help you guys give is unmeasurable. Now, regarding the live rock, how do it tell its density? I would hate to purchase a ton of light rock only to find it won't fit in my tank, and vice versa... I've heard anywhere from 1 to 2 lbs. per gallon, but without actually seeing the rock in person it is difficult to judge how much I actually need. Also, I've seen some rock at Aquatica, and it looked pretty nasty. I'm assuming that once placed into a tank with proper paramaters it would look great, but if so, is the rock advertised on the web all hype? I want as many colors as I can possibly get, and why bother spending the money on deco rock if it's all going to turn out the same? As for the sand, I like the seeding idea a lot better than blowing hundreds on live sand; however, I also want the same consistancy in my substrate. My buddy bought a tank off E-Bay (Big mistake IMO) that came with live sand, but when he added aragonite to the mix it looked like crap, mostly because it was bright white whereas the live stuff well, wasn't. However, I'm thinking astetics, not what's best for my mini-ecosystem. Scott, I know you're in Bardstown... are there any other people here from the Ft. Knox, Louisville area? I'd love to check out your tanks, and perhaps have a party when I set my tank up! Of course this will be awhile, as my bonus is still a month away. At any rate, I've said enough... take care.

[Samper]

If you see in person the Lr you can easily judge the pieces you need. I like Fiji the best due to the fact that it has very awesome shapes and the surface area on it has plenty of places for critters/benefecial bacteria to grow. My advice to you is to buy the prettiest largest pieces you can and if you need to break them to fit it's not a big deal. I'm not a big fan of Tonga branch but it can be beautiful and easy to break if you plan on using it to glue frags to. You can also get rock from that same area of the world. Rock out of the gulf tends to be very dense and the shapes aren't as nice as say the fiji, marshall islands, kaelini, and Uaniva.
One other thing I would recommend is to get base rock to make the aquascape shape you want and then try to cover it with your nice expensive pieces. The nice LR will seed the base rock eventually but you won't see much of it anyway so why spend the extra money on all premium rock?

This webpage comes to mind. Sueet has some Uaniva from these guys and was pretty pleased with it. http://www.phishybusiness.com

Sorry about the run on sentences I'm tired

[Reefland]

Well, some of the very expensive liverock online is nice when received but it will have die-off as it begins to re-cure from transit, not that it will loose all color but it will loose some. With good care, all liverock will "liven" up with some time so I like to find "decent" rock without spending a fortune. Again the Kaelini that I had Todd order came in well, lost a lot of color during curing but 4-6 weeks in our tank it is totally purple, with no macro algae which is a plus in my book.

If you ever want to come out to Bardstown to check out our tank and talk reefs, we'd love to have you! Likewise if you ever need any help with your new tank, let me know and we'd be happy to help you!

[SPC Ray]

Thanks a lot... I just may take you up on that offer... and, just out of curiousity, how much would I expect to pay if I ordered from Todd? I'm figuring with a 90 gallon tank, I need about 100-110 lbs ( A few lbs for my refugium)

[Reefland]

I think you could probably get that much for ~$6 a pound, or somewhere there about. Give him a call and see what he'll do for you.