berlin? setup? help!

noobie reefer · 12-02-2004, 11:59 PM

hi everyone can some 1 straighten me out on this? ive been keeping marine fish for almost a year, now want to go the reef route. Would my setup be possible for reef? x2 fluval 404
seaclone skimmer
x3 power heads
x1 white light
x1 blue
vecton uv sterilzer
thats all i have at the mo i know ill have to sort my lamps but would the rest cut it? any help or suggestions would be cool. sorry to ask ninong i was a bit stuck and you seemed to be a reg but i found it finally.

Samper · 12-03-2004, 07:52 AM

WELCOME TO REEFLAND!!

The Berlin method basically uses as much live rock as you can cram into your tank and sump with the combination of a good skimmer.

What size is your tank?
How much water are your powerheads pushing out?
how many watts is your uv and what pump is pushing it?
Sounds like your lights are power compacts.....possibly 1 10k and 1 actinic? how many watts are they and what animals are you aspiring to keep?

The seaclones work on smaller tanks but even the model 150 shouldn't be on a tank any larger than 20 gallons imo.
As for the fluvals.......I don't know cause I've never used them other than to vacuum out deitrus from crushed coral.

Max · 12-03-2004, 03:49 PM

As far as your fluval goes IMO they are a waste of money and time to clean them like you HAVE to if you run one. The foam prefilters collect so much waste so fast that all it does is trap the waste and filter your water through it. Unless you clean it ALL the time. I run one on my 44 gallon but only because I havent replaced it yet. My LFS told me that is what I needed.

I took out the prefilter foam and run biomax in all but the top compartment. The top is for carbon and phosphate remover but this can be done with a much smaller and easier to clean unit. Get a nice skimmer and toss the fluvals unless you want to use them for the water flow but god help you if they spring a leak. The biggest down side to these that I see EVERY time I clean it is that it puts a ton of micro bubbles in the tank when its first cleaned. not to mention all the waste that it puts back into the tank unless you completly clean every compartment.

My Berlin tank with only live rock and a skimmer is far more cleaner than my fluval tank and lots easier to maintenance .

Max

noobie reefer · 12-03-2004, 04:29 PM

thankyou for your time

Does berlin need a sump or just rocks and skimmer?
as for my tank its 48" by 15"front to back and 16" tall. not sure how many gallons it holds? any ideas?

my power heads are maxi jets it says on them 680 l/h.
uv vecton 8 is wat it says. i am desperate to keep all sorts of coral inverts etc
I have 1 anemone and a finger coral? (i think) and a nitrate absorbing grassy type thing at present. 1 clown fish, 1 bi colour blennie, 1 gramma, 1 purle shy dartfish????? and a black white humbug.

noobie reefer · 12-03-2004, 04:37 PM

thankou for replie

i have the same kinda probs with my fluvals as for bubbles and waste. ithought the bottom was for phosphate and carbon or have i got this wrong

. so if i ditch them i willl need a sump? i dont really have a clue about that area. my lfs told me also that was what i needed as with the rest. any suggestions for a cheap setup utilising my equipment or would i maybe have to start all over? all i have learned rhat this is a slow and patient game with all the amounts of probs ive had so far.

thanks

noobie reefer · 12-03-2004, 04:41 PM

my uv is conected to the fluval out pipe. wat is lmo? i have been through lots of different algaes now im at the mossy green stuff but cant seem to shift it ? any ideas.

Max · 12-03-2004, 04:43 PM

Your tank is aprox 50 gallons and as far as the location of your phos and charcoal. I use to have it on the bottom and im not sure that its not best on the bottom. In my case its probly not the best to have the water go thru my biomax then hit the charcaol. the biomax should be fed clean water but I am going to replace the fluval anyway and its less of a mess to clean the charcoal if its on top. But im not really sure. If you read the instructions it says to put them on top but I believe it would better to filter the water before it hits the biomax.

Max

Its IMO and it meens (In My Opinion)

Max · 12-03-2004, 05:17 PM

Im not really the one to ask about algae as I have my own problems with algae in one of my tanks. What I have read and been told is to reduce the amount of nutrition that the algae has to feed on ie. dont feed your fish more than they can eat and and check your lighting and run some phos scrubbers. But like i said Im not the one to ask.

All I can say for sure is that the fluvals you and I have are NOT the way to go.
My fluval will hit the ebay scene very soon!!

As for your sump, no you dont NEED a sump. Just a place to put things that benefit your tank that you may not want in your main tank. Like Skimmers and Macro Algae.

noobie reefer · 12-03-2004, 05:34 PM

really sorry to sound stupid

my skimmer is a hang on model, ive been told it dosnt quite cut it so could i get another and run 2?
if i didnt have my fluvals or a sump how would the filtration work? would loads of live rock work with skimmer and a uv and nothing else?
wat ussualy goes in a sump and wats macro algae?

Max · 12-03-2004, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobie reefer

really sorry to sound stupid

my skimmer is a hang on model, ive been told it dosnt quite cut it so could i get another and run 2?
if i didnt have my fluvals or a sump how would the filtration work? would loads of live rock work with skimmer and a uv and nothing else?
wat ussualy goes in a sump and wats macro algae?

The live rock will act as a filter and the skimmer will help a lot as well. As far as running 2, I wouldnt. Id just get 1 nice one. I say that because what are you planning on doing? Buying another skimmer like the one you have now so you have 2 bad skimmers to make up for 1 good one. Doesnt work like that. An I may be wrong but I wouldnt run the UV in your tank. You may be killing things you dont want to be killing. A fish only is fine but you are depending on lots or microorganizms to help keep your reef tank going and UV'ing them I dont think is a good idea.

If im wrong on the UV please somebody let me know.

Max

samsreef · 12-04-2004, 12:51 PM

"As far as your fluval goes IMO they are a waste of money and time to clean them like you HAVE to if you run one."

I use a fluval 404 in both of my setups and have never had any problems. They are work great in both tanks and we only have to clean them once a month.

One of my setups has been running for almost 8 months and has used a fluval 404 since day one, no problems at all other than micro bubbles. But my prizm seems to create more of them!!

Max · 12-04-2004, 02:48 PM

I am truely glad you like your fluval, I however do not!! It is a waste of money and time in a reef tank with a good skimmer. I run 2 tanks, one with the fluval and no skimmer and one with just a skimmer. No other form of filtration at all, just the skimmer and LR and it is a very happy tank. So how is spending money on a fluval for it not a waste of money and cleaning it once a month not a waste of time?

samsreef · 12-04-2004, 03:02 PM

You have a very good point, but once your LFS has decided to sell you it and you already have it what's the harm in keeping it if it is working well!

I would rather keep them than let the money just go to waste.

Max · 12-04-2004, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samsreef

You have a very good point, but once your LFS has decided to sell you it and you already have it what's the harm in keeping it if it is working well!

I would rather keep them than let the money just go to waste.

Thats my point, I dont feel it works well at all. And why dump money into a filter that is not needed. No reason pouring good money after bad just to keep a IMO poor piece of equipment running. replacement filters for it arent free.

But thats just what I have personally found to be true in my tanks. If they work for you then no harm in using them till it leaks one time and drains your tank.

BTW, If you like then so much, I got one Ill sell you.

Max

samsreef · 12-04-2004, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max

BTW, If you like then so much, I got one Ill sell you.

Max

I bet it would cost quite a bit in shipping (from us to uk !!!!)
I guess will have to agree to disagree.

noobie reefer · 12-04-2004, 03:54 PM

hello sams reef i was just wondering wat other equipment you are using and what size tank do you have? what are you keeping in it? do you use two fluvals or 1.

im just trying to get as many opinions as poss be fore to help me decide on what to do.

samsreef · 12-04-2004, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobie reefer

hello sams reef i was just wondering wat other equipment you are using and what size tank do you have? what are you keeping in it? do you use two fluvals or 1.

im just trying to get as many opinions as poss be fore to help me decide on what to do.

I am also using an internal power filter, fluidised bed filter, fluval 404 and an aquamedic protein skimmer suitable for up to 800l tank size is 400l (on my other system I'm using the same apart from im not using a fluidised bed filter and using a prizm hangon skimmer)

salttanker · 12-23-2004, 04:08 PM

Don't get rid of your fluval. You can use it to run carbon every now and then. That's what I use mine for. For what it's worth, the Fluval works great, but it does require extensive cleaning all the time, including the hoses which are a pain to take out and put back in all the time. If you want superior natural filtration, as suggested, I would go with lots of LR and an excellent skimmer. However, The sump can be handy to hide lots of equipment, in addition to adding more water volume to your overall tank to handle a bigger load.

Mike

12-02-2004, 11:59 PM	#1
noobie reefer Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: united kingdom Posts: 37	berlin? setup? help! hi everyone can some 1 straighten me out on this? ive been keeping marine fish for almost a year, now want to go the reef route. Would my setup be possible for reef? x2 fluval 404 seaclone skimmer x3 power heads x1 white light x1 blue vecton uv sterilzer thats all i have at the mo i know ill have to sort my lamps but would the rest cut it? any help or suggestions would be cool. sorry to ask ninong i was a bit stuck and you seemed to be a reg but i found it finally.

12-03-2004, 07:52 AM	#2
Samper Contributing Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,735	WELCOME TO REEFLAND!! The Berlin method basically uses as much live rock as you can cram into your tank and sump with the combination of a good skimmer. What size is your tank? How much water are your powerheads pushing out? how many watts is your uv and what pump is pushing it? Sounds like your lights are power compacts.....possibly 1 10k and 1 actinic? how many watts are they and what animals are you aspiring to keep? The seaclones work on smaller tanks but even the model 150 shouldn't be on a tank any larger than 20 gallons imo. As for the fluvals.......I don't know cause I've never used them other than to vacuum out deitrus from crushed coral. __________________ Keep your heart pure conceive your own dreams Respect your fellow man the earth and the trees.

12-03-2004, 03:49 PM	#3
Max Tenant Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upstate Newyork Posts: 89	As far as your fluval goes IMO they are a waste of money and time to clean them like you HAVE to if you run one. The foam prefilters collect so much waste so fast that all it does is trap the waste and filter your water through it. Unless you clean it ALL the time. I run one on my 44 gallon but only because I havent replaced it yet. My LFS told me that is what I needed. I took out the prefilter foam and run biomax in all but the top compartment. The top is for carbon and phosphate remover but this can be done with a much smaller and easier to clean unit. Get a nice skimmer and toss the fluvals unless you want to use them for the water flow but god help you if they spring a leak. The biggest down side to these that I see EVERY time I clean it is that it puts a ton of micro bubbles in the tank when its first cleaned. not to mention all the waste that it puts back into the tank unless you completly clean every compartment. My Berlin tank with only live rock and a skimmer is far more cleaner than my fluval tank and lots easier to maintenance . Max Last edited by Max; 12-03-2004 at 03:52 PM.

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12-03-2004, 04:29 PM	#4
noobie reefer Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: united kingdom Posts: 37	thankyou for your time Does berlin need a sump or just rocks and skimmer? as for my tank its 48" by 15"front to back and 16" tall. not sure how many gallons it holds? any ideas? my power heads are maxi jets it says on them 680 l/h. uv vecton 8 is wat it says. i am desperate to keep all sorts of coral inverts etc I have 1 anemone and a finger coral? (i think) and a nitrate absorbing grassy type thing at present. 1 clown fish, 1 bi colour blennie, 1 gramma, 1 purle shy dartfish????? and a black white humbug.

12-03-2004, 04:37 PM	#5
noobie reefer Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: united kingdom Posts: 37	thankou for replie i have the same kinda probs with my fluvals as for bubbles and waste. ithought the bottom was for phosphate and carbon or have i got this wrong . so if i ditch them i willl need a sump? i dont really have a clue about that area. my lfs told me also that was what i needed as with the rest. any suggestions for a cheap setup utilising my equipment or would i maybe have to start all over? all i have learned rhat this is a slow and patient game with all the amounts of probs ive had so far. thanks

12-03-2004, 04:41 PM	#6
noobie reefer Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: united kingdom Posts: 37	my uv is conected to the fluval out pipe. wat is lmo? i have been through lots of different algaes now im at the mossy green stuff but cant seem to shift it ? any ideas.

12-03-2004, 04:43 PM	#7
Max Tenant Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upstate Newyork Posts: 89	Your tank is aprox 50 gallons and as far as the location of your phos and charcoal. I use to have it on the bottom and im not sure that its not best on the bottom. In my case its probly not the best to have the water go thru my biomax then hit the charcaol. the biomax should be fed clean water but I am going to replace the fluval anyway and its less of a mess to clean the charcoal if its on top. But im not really sure. If you read the instructions it says to put them on top but I believe it would better to filter the water before it hits the biomax. Max Its IMO and it meens (In My Opinion)

12-03-2004, 05:17 PM	#8
Max Tenant Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upstate Newyork Posts: 89	Im not really the one to ask about algae as I have my own problems with algae in one of my tanks. What I have read and been told is to reduce the amount of nutrition that the algae has to feed on ie. dont feed your fish more than they can eat and and check your lighting and run some phos scrubbers. But like i said Im not the one to ask. All I can say for sure is that the fluvals you and I have are NOT the way to go. My fluval will hit the ebay scene very soon!! As for your sump, no you dont NEED a sump. Just a place to put things that benefit your tank that you may not want in your main tank. Like Skimmers and Macro Algae.

12-03-2004, 05:34 PM	#9
noobie reefer Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: united kingdom Posts: 37	really sorry to sound stupid my skimmer is a hang on model, ive been told it dosnt quite cut it so could i get another and run 2? if i didnt have my fluvals or a sump how would the filtration work? would loads of live rock work with skimmer and a uv and nothing else? wat ussualy goes in a sump and wats macro algae?

12-04-2004, 12:51 PM	#11
samsreef Citizen Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 152	"As far as your fluval goes IMO they are a waste of money and time to clean them like you HAVE to if you run one." I use a fluval 404 in both of my setups and have never had any problems. They are work great in both tanks and we only have to clean them once a month. One of my setups has been running for almost 8 months and has used a fluval 404 since day one, no problems at all other than micro bubbles. But my prizm seems to create more of them!!

12-04-2004, 02:48 PM	#12
Max Tenant Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upstate Newyork Posts: 89	I am truely glad you like your fluval, I however do not!! It is a waste of money and time in a reef tank with a good skimmer. I run 2 tanks, one with the fluval and no skimmer and one with just a skimmer. No other form of filtration at all, just the skimmer and LR and it is a very happy tank. So how is spending money on a fluval for it not a waste of money and cleaning it once a month not a waste of time?

12-04-2004, 03:02 PM	#13
samsreef Citizen Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 152	You have a very good point, but once your LFS has decided to sell you it and you already have it what's the harm in keeping it if it is working well! I would rather keep them than let the money just go to waste.

12-04-2004, 03:54 PM	#16
noobie reefer Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: united kingdom Posts: 37	hello sams reef i was just wondering wat other equipment you are using and what size tank do you have? what are you keeping in it? do you use two fluvals or 1. im just trying to get as many opinions as poss be fore to help me decide on what to do.

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12-23-2004, 04:08 PM	#18
salttanker Citizen Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Gilbert, AZ. Posts: 106	Don't get rid of your fluval. You can use it to run carbon every now and then. That's what I use mine for. For what it's worth, the Fluval works great, but it does require extensive cleaning all the time, including the hoses which are a pain to take out and put back in all the time. If you want superior natural filtration, as suggested, I would go with lots of LR and an excellent skimmer. However, The sump can be handy to hide lots of equipment, in addition to adding more water volume to your overall tank to handle a bigger load. Mike