[NoSump]

I'm setting up my first marine tank. I purchased crushed coral and argonite sand as a substrate. I have read that no matter how much rinsing is done, agronite sand will continue to run cloudy. I filled my new 72 gal. bowfront tank with the "rinsed" substrate and the water -the color of my tank quickly turned to that of mushroom soup. My readings had advised not to worry, that the tank would clear in a few days.

Of course the tank did clear eventually, but minimal movement within the tank (to arrange tank contents for set-up) quickly re-clouds the water.

It seems to be impractical to have a substrate that is that sensitive to movement within the tank. Is my degree of clouding normal? Are the problems of cloudy water caused by argonite sand just another challenge of this hobby?

Thanks.

[Samper]

It will settle out eventually but I must add that the sand will settle under the crushed coral and really won't funtion like it should this way.

[noobie reefer]

Originally Posted by Samper

It will settle out eventually but I must add that the sand will settle under the crushed coral and really won't funtion like it should this way.

what would be the ideal base just sand or layers ?

[Poseidon]

Just sand... If there are larger particles then the sand will fall and fill the gaps between those particles... Believe I know, that is what is happening in my tank right now!

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by NoSump

I'm setting up my first marine tank.

Good luck!

I purchased crushed coral and argonite sand as a substrate.

Better to go with one or the other. For a reef aquarium, I prefer a sand bed of aragonite sand. If you mixed sand with crushed coral, all of the sand will settle to the bottom and all of the crushed coral will end up on top over the next 18 months or so. Crushed coral traps detritus and requires regular siphoning. Sand beds do not require siphoning if they are properly constructed because they will process the detritus all by themselves. I have never touched the surface of my sand bed in the 18 months since it was set up.

I have read that no matter how much rinsing is done, agronite sand will continue to run cloudy.

It won't run cloudy forever. Mine cleared up after about 8 or 9 days. I used unrinsed fine particle aragonite sand (Southdown).

Of course the tank did clear eventually, but minimal movement within the tank (to arrange tank contents for set-up) quickly re-clouds the water.

That condition doesn't last forever either. You won't have that problem two or three weeks from now.

It seems to be impractical to have a substrate that is that sensitive to movement within the tank.

It's a temporary thing.

Is my degree of clouding normal?

Yes.

Are the problems of cloudy water caused by argonite sand just another challenge of this hobby?

The cloudy water is a very temporaty problem. Once the sand particles develop a biofilm, things will settle down nicely. A longer range limitation will be the amount of water flow that you can run in your tank depending on the type of substrate you choose. Fine particle sand beds have many advantages but they do make strong water flow difficult to achieve without rearranging the "sand dunes" in the tank. I'm running about 1000 gph through my 120-gal tank with 6" fine particle deep sand bed without any problems but when I tried to add an additional 1600 gph via a Tunze Stream, I ended up with sand dunes and sand on the live rock structure. Maybe I could have made it work eventually but I gave up and took out the Stream.

[noobie reefer]

hello all

so how would i go about changing to a sand bed?
would be ok to remove most of my crushed coral and swap it with sand?
would this have a bad effect on my tank? (1 year old)
which types of sand is needed ive read that any sand with carribbean on it is cool am i right ?
thanks guys

[Poseidon]

I bought mine from Home Depot. CAme in a bag labeled "tropical play sand from the Carribean" A good way to test it is to take a little vinegar with you, drop the sand in the vinegar, if it starts to dissolve, thats the stuff you want. If not then don't buy it....

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by noobie reefer

hello all

so how would i go about changing to a sand bed?

Just remove your livestock and live rock to separate holding containers so that you can get all of your present sand-crushed coral mixture out of the tank.

would be ok to remove most of my crushed coral and swap it with sand?

It would be better to simply remove everything and restart the sand bed.

would this have a bad effect on my tank? (1 year old)

Not if you do it properly. But you have me confused because in your opening post you wrote this: "I'm setting up my first marine tank. I purchased crushed coral and argonite sand as a substrate. I have read that no matter how much rinsing is done, agronite sand will continue to run cloudy. I filled my new 72 gal." So are you just now setting up your substrate or did you set it up a year ago???

which types of sand is needed ive read that any sand with carribbean on it is cool am i right ?
thanks guys

What you read applies only to us Yanks. You can't get the cheapy Southdown (Oldcastle, Yardright, etc.) where you live (U.K.). As far as I know, you can only get the expensive stuff -- Carib-Sea, etc.

[noobie reefer]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Good luck!


Better to go with one or the other. For a reef aquarium, I prefer a sand bed of aragonite sand. If you mixed sand with crushed coral, all of the sand will settle to the bottom and all of the crushed coral will end up on top over the next 18 months or so. Crushed coral traps detritus and requires regular siphoning. Sand beds do not require siphoning if they are properly constructed because they will process the detritus all by themselves. I have never touched the surface of my sand bed in the 18 months since it was set up.


It won't run cloudy forever. Mine cleared up after about 8 or 9 days. I used unrinsed fine particle aragonite sand (Southdown).


That condition doesn't last forever either. You won't have that problem two or three weeks from now.


It's a temporary thing.


Yes.


The cloudy water is a very temporaty problem. Once the sand particles develop a biofilm, things will settle down nicely. A longer range limitation will be the amount of water flow that you can run in your tank depending on the type of substrate you choose. Fine particle sand beds have many advantages but they do make strong water flow difficult to achieve without rearranging the "sand dunes" in the tank. I'm running about 1000 gph through my 120-gal tank with 6" fine particle deep sand bed without any problems but when I tried to add an additional 1600 gph via a Tunze Stream, I ended up with sand dunes and sand on the live rock structure. Maybe I could have made it work eventually but I gave up and took out the Stream.

now im confused ?
i didnt start the thread just nipped in there after.
if thats what you mean?

yeah im in u.k. and have checked two major diy stores but with no luck.

i dont know what to do.
thanks guys

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by noobie reefer

now im confused ?
i didnt start the thread just nipped in there after.
if thats what you mean?

yeah im in u.k. and have checked two major diy stores but with no luck.

i dont know what to do.
thanks guys

Well, I think I'm the one that's confused because I didn't realize that you were not the guy who started the thread. Sorry 'bout that.

The references to the word "Caribbean" in the label applies to the cheapy aragonite sand that is available in the U.S.: Southdown Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean, Oldcastle Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean, Yardright Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean, etc.

I don't believe those inexpensive aragonite sands are available in the U.K. I believe all you have access to are the aragonite sands specifically marketed for marine aquaria: Carib-Sea, etc. Carib-Sea sells a wide variety of calcareous sands in various particle sizes ranging from fine sugar-sized particles all the way up to crushed coral.

If you aren't in the mood for replacing all of your present substrate all at once, maybe you could just remove the crushed coral as it rises to the surface and add more aragonite sand gradually.

[noobie reefer]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Well, I think I'm the one that's confused because I didn't realize that you were not the guy who started the thread. Sorry 'bout that.

The references to the word "Caribbean" in the label applies to the cheapy aragonite sand that is available in the U.S.: Southdown Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean, Oldcastle Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean, Yardright Tropical Play Sand from the Caribbean, etc.

thats cool

im on a mission now get some fine sand. the stuff i have from lfs was the finest they had but its not all that fine. they only had three sizes and they were really small bags. i think ill have to get out the yellow pages. thanks for your help ninong

[Poseidon]

OOPS... Sorry didn't see you were in the UK... Good luck with the slow transfermation, I have been contemplating exactly what Ninong suggested here for some time. I just don't want to cause a sandstorm...

[noobie reefer]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

OOPS... Sorry didn't see you were in the UK... Good luck with the slow transfermation, I have been contemplating exactly what Ninong suggested here for some time. I just don't want to cause a sandstorm...

thanks guys ,
if any one in the uk has managed to find a suitable sand in a home store could you post it thanks.

thanks for help guys

[NoSump]

Thank you for all the helpful advice - I was the original poster of this question.

The good news is that my "mushroom soup" water will clear (and to a large extend has already done so), the bad news appears to be that my layered substrate strategy was not the best approach.

I layed a 2-3 inch based of crushed coral, and topped with 1-2 inches of argonite sand. I actually got the idea from the book "Acquariums for Dummies".
I guess the "dummies" part was more accurate than I thought.

As I have already begun curing 40lbs of Fiji live rock, and 30 lbs of Lalo rock, I am not inclined to re-do my substrate. It sounds like the best approach is to wait for the crushed coral to work it's way to the top, and continually remove it (as I add more sand). I am off to Home Depot or Lowes to buy some playground sand.

Thanks.

[RevClyburn]

Does anyone know where to find Southdown, YardRight or Old Castle Tropical play sand in New Jersey? Don't think any of the Home Depots around me have it in stock, at least not the one near my house.


Thanks

RevClyburn

[Ninong]

I will ask zhenya to respond to your question since he lives in New Jersey. I believe he has even found the "good stuff" at Toys-R-Us or some such place.

It is usually carried by the Home Depot stores in New Jersey but sometimes they run out in the winter. It's a seasonal item since they stock it in their Garden Department as a landscaping product.

[zhenya]

Hi there, RevClyburn,

Welcome to Reefland!

I haven't shoped in the Home Depot for some time so I am not sure if my local store has it or not.Where in NJ are you?

[NoSump]

My Home Depot (Delaware) did have a stock of "playground sand". Unfortunately, they did not have the brands that Ninong had suggested. They had the generic "quickrite". I had a feeling that it wasn't the right sand - but at $2.87 for a 50 lb bag, I bought a bag to test at home. It did not pass the vinegar test. I will check other sources; in any event I have fifty lbs. of sand for my walkways when the first snow hits.

Reverend, since we are "neighbors", I will let you know if I have any luck finding the inexpensive sand locally.

Since I've learned from this thread that time, effort, and money can be saved by asking the advise of you experienced reefers - I have another question.

I am about to purchase a skimmer for my 72 gallon Oceanic bowfront. I am planning to purchase the Prizm Deluxe (I was tempted to purchase the Pro Deluxe, but didn't think that I needed that much skimming capacity - although I gather more is better). Is the Prizm Deluxe an appropriate skimmer? The other skimmer that I was considering was the largest SeaClone (rated up to 150 gal).

[RevClyburn]

Hey Zhenya

in Howell NJ, near Freehold.

Originally Posted by zhenya

Hi there, RevClyburn,

Welcome to Reefland!

I haven't shoped in the Home Depot for some time so I am not sure if my local store has it or not.Where in NJ are you?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by NoSump

Since I've learned from this thread that time, effort, and money can be saved by asking the advise of you experienced reefers - I have another question.

I am about to purchase a skimmer for my 72 gallon Oceanic bowfront. I am planning to purchase the Prizm Deluxe (I was tempted to purchase the Pro Deluxe, but didn't think that I needed that much skimming capacity - although I gather more is better). Is the Prizm Deluxe an appropriate skimmer?

Probably not, but I'll let someone else advise you on that because I'm not all that familiar with those skimmers.

The other skimmer that I was considering was the largest SeaClone (rated up to 150 gal).

The "largest SeaClone (rated up to 150 gal)" is adequate for a 20-gal tank and that's about it. Do a search on this or any other board under "SeaClone" and see what SeaClone owners have to say about this product.

Here is a typical SeaClone thread: Seaclone Protein Skimmer AQ Systems

Another happy owner here: Seaclone