Just a protein skimmer

[SaltyNewb]

I am throwing away or selling my Piece of **** via aqua multiskimmer, but I just bought the emperor 280. I need a good (relatively cheap) protein skimmer that is HOT.

Since I have read that the prizm isn't too good and that the seaclone sucks ass, I am either stuck with the remora pro or maybe even a backpack or something.

All I need is just a protein skimmer, but they seem so expensive. I know everyone likes different things but I can't seem to find anything substantial.

Any help appreciated. I already exhausted the search button.

[SaltyNewb]

since I already bought the emperor 280 which is HOT, I guess I can't get the HOT refugium from aquafuge. I guess I don't need it in my 29 gallon (it would be nice though). Should I think about adding it in addition to the emperor and a protein skimmer?

[Reefland]

I think you should take back the Emperor and put the funds towards a Remora Pro skimmer with the added surface skimmer and bubble collector. This is all I would run on a 29gal with agressive water changes.

[SaltyNewb]

I wish I could take it back, but I already have it running on my tank. Would it be stupid to put the remora in addition to the emperor?

[Reefland]

Nope, but it's a waste of power to run the Emperor in my opinion. If you have good quality liverock and either a DSB or bare-bottom, the skimmer is all you would need.

[ClintoninCali]

Not to toe-step but I think running both would be beneficial. The skimmer would involve no mechanical filtration and the little bit of carbon in the emperor filter pads does wonders for smell. I even have a carbon container over the breather holes of my skimmer at work to ease up on the stinkiness of the waste cup. Not to mention the emperor is probably giving great water flow with the wide waterfall that the skimmer may not be able to do.

[SaltyNewb]

thanks clinton for your reply!

The emperor is doing good I think, and in combination with the powerhead I recently bought, the tank looks better already i think. I know the emperors have carbon in the pads but they also have another slot for media such as carbon which i will either add phosguard or carbon.

The problem is now finding a decent HOT protein skimmer without spending too much money.

[SaltyNewb]

if you have a deep sand bed, do you need to stir it everyday even if you have nassarius, etc, that can help?

I don't want to go to deep in my sand bed, I am afraid!

[Poseidon]

No you don't need to TOUCH the sandbed. Little critters would have a real hard time digging homes if you did that!

I agree with Scott the Emperor filter is nothing more then a circulation device. I don't run any mechanical filtratration in my tank, with the exception of some poly fill that I put in the overflow when I scrape the glass. I have put bags of carbon on top of my skimmer b4 too, and that trick seems to work pretty good.

I would buy the Right skimmer the first time... err, second time. So that way you don't have to buy a 3rd one.

[SaltyNewb]

well i might as well keep the emperor since i can't return it after i used it, but I will be getting a good protein skimmer this time, not that via aqua multiskimmer crap.

I have a really shallow sand bed, 1" at the most, do you recommend I not touch it, or that I buy more sand and make it deeper?

I am confused because from what I was told at the LFS i bought a sandsifting star and a goby to sift the sand, but Dr. Ron said they are going to eat the critters in the sand bed.

Am I never supposed to touch it unless i do a water change? Even then do I just skim the surface?

[Ninong]

I have a really shallow sand bed, 1" at the most, do you recommend I not touch it, or that I buy more sand and make it deeper?

That's up to you. I think I would probably add more sand until it is about 3" deep. Maybe 3.5" deep.

I am confused because from what I was told at the LFS i bought a sandsifting star and a goby to sift the sand, but Dr. Ron said they are going to eat the critters in the sand bed.

The white sand sifting sea star (Archaster typicus) consumes the sand bed infauna. That's what he does for a living. He's sifting the sand looking for something to eat. Same with any sand sifting gobies, etc. If you are trying to maintain a functioning deep sand bed (at least 3" deep), you should want to populate it with a healthy, diverse population of worms and microcrustaceans to keep the sediments turning. Unless your tank is 500 gallons or so, your sand bed will not be able to tolerate that much predation because anything that eats the fauna in the top layer of the sand bed will have an indirect effect on the entire sand bed infauna.

Am I never supposed to touch it unless i do a water change? Even then do I just skim the surface?

I guess you mean are you supposed to touch the sand bed, right? Yes or no, depending on what sort of sand bed you are keeping. For example, if you are keeping a shallow (1/2" deep) crushed coral substrate, you would want to siphon it regularly to avoid the buildup of detritus but if you are keeping the sort of fine particle deep sand bed recommended by Dr. Shimek (he recommends a minimum of 4" deep), then you should never touch it. Stirring or siphoning such a sand bed would have a detrimental effect on the infauna. Such a sand bed relies on the microcritters that inhabit the sediments to keep the sediments moving. Critters suitable for the surface (epifauna) of such a sand bed would be polychaete worms (hair worms, bristleworms, etc.), Nassarius vibex snails, Cerith snails, sand cukes or fighting conchs if the sand bed's surface is large enough to sustain them, etc. Hermit crabs would actually feed on some of these valuable sand bed critters and therefore they should either be excluded from consideration or tolerated in numbers small enough that their predation is tolerable without disturbing the balance of things.

[SaltyNewb]

Thank you so much for your help.

When I bought the arag live sand from the store, it looks coarser than most I have seen. Maybe they gave me the wrong bag?

If I keep a 1/2" sand bed but with the fine sand, can I do this and sift it instead of making it 3" deep?

Also, if I make it 3" deep, can I just add it into the tank or is it supposed to be gradual. Is the sand going to look white and pretty? Since I am not supposed to touch it will the top of it have algae at first then go away. I am not experienced with this so I don't know what will happen. I am more concerned with the way it looks I guess

I read the sticky on sandbeds at reefcentral but am still confused on what to do. Is 3" the minimum or can I get away with 2 - 2 1/2"?

I know Dr. Ron on reefcentral said that the critters will stir the sand and I don't have to worry about nitrogenous pockets, but the fish store always tells me that I will have them unless I stir the sand?

[Ninong]

When I bought the arag live sand from the store, it looks coarser than most I have seen. Maybe they gave me the wrong bag?

Arag-Alive sand is sugar sized. That's reasonably fine.

If I keep a 1/2" sand bed but with the fine sand, can I do this and sift it instead of making it 3" deep?

I guess you can make the sand bed any depth you like. It's just that you need it to be a minimum of a certain depth if you expect it to provide denitrification and then a minimum of a different depth if you want to provide all the benefits of a deep sand bed such as Dr. Shimek recommends. You can get a considerable amount of denitrification out of a 2" fine particle sand bed but you need at least 3"-3.5" if you want to provide the appropriate habitat for all the sand dwelling critters that Shimek is talking about. You can even run with a sand bed less than 1" deep if that's want you want to do but don't expect it to help with nitrate reduction.

Or you can run without any sand bed at all if that's what you want to do. Then you don't have to worry about how much water current you can move through the tank but on the other hand you will not have the many benefits of a sand bed and you won't be able to keep certain species that require sand beds.

Also, if I make it 3" deep, can I just add it into the tank or is it supposed to be gradual. Is the sand going to look white and pretty? Since I am not supposed to touch it will the top of it have algae at first then go away.

If your present sand bed had a lot of established infauna, you would want to add new sand gradually, no more than about 1/2" layer at a time but if you have just set up your tank, go ahead and add all of the new sand at once if you feel like it. That's what I would probably do.

I read the sticky on sandbeds at reefcentral but am still confused on what to do. Is 3" the minimum or can I get away with 2 - 2 1/2"?

Shimek's current minimum is 4". At one time he did agree that 3.5" would be adequate. A lot depends on the size of your tank, too. If the tank is a small tank, 20 gallons or less, then you can't run the type of sand bed Shimek is talking about even if your depth is 5" because you don't have enough mass to work with.

One of the other sand bed "experts" recommends a minimum of at least 3" and still another sand bed guru says it should be a minimum of 6"+.

I think you are going to have to make up your own mind as to what sort of sand bed you want. A lot depends on the size of your tank and what sort of corals you intend to keep. In spite of all the benefits of a nice, fine particle, deep sand bed, it is not suitable for a very high flow tank dominated by SPS corals. You can make it work in such a tank but only within certain limitations and with compromises.

I know Dr. Ron on reefcentral said that the critters will stir the sand and I don't have to worry about nitrogenous pockets, but the fish store always tells me that I will have them unless I stir the sand?

Yeah, the fish store people say a lot of things like that. They don't know what they're talking about, as usual. Unless you get in there with a shovel and dig up your sand bed, you're not going to have any problems with hydrogen sulfate, which is what they are usually worried about. As far as "nitrogenous pockets" are concerned, if you didn't have them deep in your sand bed it wouldn't be doing its job. The sort of sand bed that the LFS is talking about is one that is nonfunctional and strictly for looks. That's why they have to stir it constantly and siphon all the detritus because the sand bed isn't capable of processing the detritus for them the way they have it set up.

If you would like to read a detailed explanation of how deep sand beds function, read this:

Part I: http://www.seabay.org/art_plenums_part1.htm

Part II: http://www.seabay.org/art_plenums_part2.htm

P.S. -- Which part of Louisiana are you from?

[Poseidon]

Yee Haaa... That's what I call a little light reading!! Great links Ninong!