converting freshwater to saltwater

[teresad134]

I currently have a 55 gallon freshwater aquarium which I have had for approximately 4 years. I have always wanted a saltwater aquarium and am thinking about converting my current tank. I have been doing quite a bit of reading about saltwater aquariums, but know that people who have them are the best source of info. I have two penguin 330 filters, 1 with bio wheels and 1 without. I have single tube lighting and no undergravel filter. Can anyone tell me what new equipment they think I would need as far as filters, lighting, etc. I would like to do the set up properly from the beginning, even if I have to spend a little more money. I would like to have a fish only, with live rock for starters.

Any helpful information would be appreciated.

[zhenya]

I currently have a 55 gallon freshwater aquarium which I have had for approximately 4 years. I have always wanted a saltwater aquarium and am thinking about converting my current tank. I have been doing quite a bit of reading about saltwater aquariums, but know that people who have them are the best source of info. I have two penguin 330 filters, 1 with bio wheels and 1 without. I have single tube lighting and no undergravel filter. Can anyone tell me what new equipment they think I would need as far as filters, lighting, etc. I would like to do the set up properly from the beginning, even if I have to spend a little more money. I would like to have a fish only, with live rock for starters.

Any helpful information would be appreciated.

Hi teresad134, Welcome to Reefland!

I moved your thread to this forum so you can get more replies to your specific questions.

[Samper]

Clean it out real good, decide if you want bare bottom or sand, get a sump, nice skimmer, return pump, hang on overflow or two, few extra powerheads if you need them for added circulation, some LR depending on your tastes but more is better imo. Your lighting will do for fish only.

[Poseidon]

Hi teresad134 WELCOME to REEFLAND!!!

First off, like Samper said drain and clean everything very well. You will be able to use your tank, heater, tops, and any powerheads you may have. Next replace the gravel, personally I like a Deep Sand Bed (DSB) sugar sized stuff. Do a search on "south Down, or Old Castle" or you can buy it at the LFS for $30.00 a bag...

As far as lights go, your single tube would be OK, but a double strip would be more pleasing. MAybe a VHO or PC fixture for the future. I'll get more in depth in a little bit I gotta go for right now... I'm actually at WORK!!!!

[Poseidon]

K I'm at home....

I would suggest a 4" DSB and a good Skimmer to go with wat you already have. I would use the filters you have mentioned just for current, meaning NO MEDIA in them, except carbon that you change at least every 30 days. The Live rock and DSB will become your filtration, and the skimmer will remove most Dissolved Organic WAste before it has a chance to break down into Nitrites and Nitrates. DO NOT skimp on the skimmer, I believe it is the most important part of a successful tank! If you can, a 29 gallon tank would make a nice size sump, to place under your display tank, that way you can hide the Skimmer and heater in the cabinet. It also allows you to have more water volume, which in turn stablizes your eco-system. I use a 55 to filter my 135, with Macro Algaes, sponges, and all kinds of critters that live in my sump.

You may want to take a peak thru some of the member pages to get an idea what they all use. Ninong and Reefland both have some progress threads up that contain alot of good info, and Zhenya has to be one of the most successful around with the way his E. Quad. just keeps reproducing in his tank. There are quite a few threads the discuss protein skimmers, it seems the CPR, and Aqua C keep coming up as the ones to get for Hang On applications, and My Reef, ETSS, and Euro Reef for in SUMP models. I use a Kent and it works pretty well, but I had to make some mods to it, and for the money I paid I shouldn't have had too... My next skimmer will be a My Reef, probably a MR-1 since I will be getting a smaller tank.

Most of all remember not to rush things, this hobby takes TIME, and MORE TIME, to learn how to keep it simple. I think most new comers think they have to tinker with the tank all the time and add this or that to the tank. I have learned that the LESS I fiddle with stuff the better off I am. I only add Kalk for Ca and Alk supplements, I do a 20% water change once a month, and I replace for evaporation every other day. I feed 2 times a day and that is IT. No MAGIC potions or "trace elements" those are in the salt mix. Also remember never to ADD anything without testing for it first, especially toxins like Iodine and Strontium...

One more thing, the Local Fish Store (LFS) will no doubt try and sell you damsels to cycle your tank with. YOU DO NOT NEED them. The Live rock will do it all for you, if you want you can drop a single TAble shrimp into your tank to kick start the beneficial bacteria. The LFS may also try and sell you bottles of these bacteria, i am not convinced they are of any help. So save that money too. All the answers are here, you just need to ask, or "search" cause I'll bet someone else had a similar question....

READ READ READ, go slow and have FUN!!!

[teresad134]

Thanks for all the good information. I seem to be getting the same basic answers from everybody, just different models of equipment.

K I'm at home....

I would suggest a 4" DSB and a good Skimmer to go with wat you already have. I would use the filters you have mentioned just for current, meaning NO MEDIA in them, except carbon that you change at least every 30 days. The Live rock and DSB will become your filtration, and the skimmer will remove most Dissolved Organic WAste before it has a chance to break down into Nitrites and Nitrates. DO NOT skimp on the skimmer, I believe it is the most important part of a successful tank! If you can, a 29 gallon tank would make a nice size sump, to place under your display tank, that way you can hide the Skimmer and heater in the cabinet. It also allows you to have more water volume, which in turn stablizes your eco-system. I use a 55 to filter my 135, with Macro Algaes, sponges, and all kinds of critters that live in my sump.

You may want to take a peak thru some of the member pages to get an idea what they all use. Ninong and Reefland both have some progress threads up that contain alot of good info, and Zhenya has to be one of the most successful around with the way his E. Quad. just keeps reproducing in his tank. There are quite a few threads the discuss protein skimmers, it seems the CPR, and Aqua C keep coming up as the ones to get for Hang On applications, and My Reef, ETSS, and Euro Reef for in SUMP models. I use a Kent and it works pretty well, but I had to make some mods to it, and for the money I paid I shouldn't have had too... My next skimmer will be a My Reef, probably a MR-1 since I will be getting a smaller tank.

Most of all remember not to rush things, this hobby takes TIME, and MORE TIME, to learn how to keep it simple. I think most new comers think they have to tinker with the tank all the time and add this or that to the tank. I have learned that the LESS I fiddle with stuff the better off I am. I only add Kalk for Ca and Alk supplements, I do a 20% water change once a month, and I replace for evaporation every other day. I feed 2 times a day and that is IT. No MAGIC potions or "trace elements" those are in the salt mix. Also remember never to ADD anything without testing for it first, especially toxins like Iodine and Strontium...

One more thing, the Local Fish Store (LFS) will no doubt try and sell you damsels to cycle your tank with. YOU DO NOT NEED them. The Live rock will do it all for you, if you want you can drop a single TAble shrimp into your tank to kick start the beneficial bacteria. The LFS may also try and sell you bottles of these bacteria, i am not convinced they are of any help. So save that money too. All the answers are here, you just need to ask, or "search" cause I'll bet someone else had a similar question....

READ READ READ, go slow and have FUN!!!

[teresad134]

Something I forgot to ask about. I don't know much about the "sump" everyone is talking about. What does it do and how does it connect to your tank? What is the purpose of the sump and do I have to have one? Just haven't seen much information about it online and don't really understand.

Thanks!

Thanks for all the good information. I seem to be getting the same basic answers from everybody, just different models of equipment.

[MarinePig]

I am somewhat new to but a sump is an excellant idea now that I have learned more. I origionally didn't want a sump but wish I would have now. Basically, a sump is an out of the way place to do all the "real work" in a tank. You place an overflow point for water to be pumped to a secondary location (usually under the main tank). Water is pumped to the "2nd tank" and you have the protien skinner there, along with live rock for filteration, and whatever else you want to put there. The biggest advantage is that you don't have a bunch of thing hanging in your tank to block your view. Everything is out of sight doing the work.

[Reefland]

For systems with sumps, water is not pumped from the display to the sump, it is either siphoned through an external overflow or gravity drains through an internal overflow. People that are new to the sump concept male the common mistake thinking that 2 pumps are used to move the water between the two. The simple fact is you will never, ever be able to get the flow between the two equal using 2 pumps therefore an external overflow box (CPR, Lifereef, etc.) or a dilled tank with corner overflows must be used with one or more return pumps.

I don't want to make it sound more complicated because it's not, Actually it is very simple to setup and once you have done it, you will be very happy, for several reasons, that you did.

[teresad134]

If I get a hang on protein skimmer now, can I use it later in a sump system if I decide to?


If I want to start a sump now and I don't have predrilled holes in my tank, can I just use a hose to siphon from the main tank or do I have to have some sort of system to hang on the tank?

For systems with sumps, water is not pumped from the display to the sump, it is either siphoned through an external overflow or gravity drains through an internal overflow. People that are new to the sump concept male the common mistake thinking that 2 pumps are used to move the water between the two. The simple fact is you will never, ever be able to get the flow between the two equal using 2 pumps therefore an external overflow box (CPR, Lifereef, etc.) or a dilled tank with corner overflows must be used with one or more return pumps.

I don't want to make it sound more complicated because it's not, Actually it is very simple to setup and once you have done it, you will be very happy, for several reasons, that you did.

[Samper]

You can get a hang on skimmer now and use it in sump later however most hang on skimmers are for systems that are pretty small. If you plan to upgrade to a large system later you may need to purchase a larger skimmer when you do.

For getting water to the sump without a drilled tank you can use a hang on overflow like the one here but there are many different options so search around.

http://www.reefgeek.com/products/cat...es/103894.html

[teresad134]

The reason I ask is that I have a 20 galloon tank I could used underneath, if anyone thinks that will work.

You can get a hang on skimmer now and use it in sump later however most hang on skimmers are for systems that are pretty small. If you plan to upgrade to a large system later you may need to purchase a larger skimmer when you do.

For getting water to the sump without a drilled tank you can use a hang on overflow like the one here but there are many different options so search around.

http://www.reefgeek.com/products/cat...es/103894.html

[Samper]

that'll work as will a large rubbermaid as long as it's not reactive to salt water, the problem with smaller sumps is the amount of water you will be able to move through it and the size of some of the equipment that needs to go in it. As long as it'll fit your equipment aka, skimmer, return pump etc and move the amount of water you want to move through it you should be ok.

[teresad134]

Thanks for the information.

that'll work as will a large rubbermaid as long as it's not reactive to salt water, the problem with smaller sumps is the amount of water you will be able to move through it and the size of some of the equipment that needs to go in it. As long as it'll fit your equipment aka, skimmer, return pump etc and move the amount of water you want to move through it you should be ok.

[teresad134]

Have been reading more and have more questions now. If I get the overflow for my tank, can I put my skimmer and heater in the sump in my cabinet? What else do I need for the sump? Sorry to be a pain but this is the best way to get my questions answered. Thanks!!!

that'll work as will a large rubbermaid as long as it's not reactive to salt water, the problem with smaller sumps is the amount of water you will be able to move through it and the size of some of the equipment that needs to go in it. As long as it'll fit your equipment aka, skimmer, return pump etc and move the amount of water you want to move through it you should be ok.

[Samper]

You're not being a pain at all, you should read some of my past and present posts if you wanna see pain. Don't worry for a second about that.

The answer is yes, the sump is a place to hide all sorts of unsightly equipment.
When I set mine up I'll put my digital thermometer down there, my skimmer, a couple heaters and my return pump. There are many ways to design a sump and it all depends on your needs. I don't want any micro bubbles in my display for a couple of reasons so I'll be adding a few over under baffles to mine to alleviate this. Some people put a refugium in theirs also but I don't really agree with this.

Basically here is the way mine will work.........my overflows will drain down into a chamber where my skimmer will be sitting. The skimmer will skim and release water back into the sump. The water will go under a baffle, over another one and under another one into a larger compartment that I will use to hold extra live rock or whatever, the idea is more water volume. Then I might have another series of baffles to a compartment where my return pump will be. This pump will return the water to the main completing the cycle. You can use an external pump but this involves drilling and plumbing some extra pieces. I don't really trust too much plumbing so I'll have an internal pump. You can have heat issues with internal pumps and some are noisy so research carefully before making a decision and final purchase.

[WuTang]

If you've committed to doing a FOWLR tank ONLY and have absolutely no desire in doing a reef tank in the future (swear up and down), it's really not neccessary to set up a sump especially if you don't have much bread to break. But remember, planning it all out and making good decisions is key to this hobby. Also, keep up your water changes since it's probably one of the most important aspects. Here's what you'll need if you don't go the sump route and are somewhat on a budget:

1) A VERY GOOD hang-on Protein Skimmer (the best you can afford). Here's just a few: Bak-Pak II from cpraquatic.com, Euroreef Skimmers, Lifereef Skimmers from lifereef.com, and skimmers from myreefcreations.com. Check out the sponsors page for others. For a new skimmer, they can range from $100 to several hundred. Do your research. If you don't get a skimmer, you'll need to do frequent water changes while spending more time monitoring your water chemistry.

2) Liverock - as much as you can afford. The more, the better since it takes care of your biological filtration. For me, 2lbs per gallon of water is what I have. Some others will say one pound or even three lbs per gallon.

3) Livesand - optional but acts as biological filtration as well. I'd recommend it. A 2 - 4 inch sand bed is good.

4) A good external filter. I used a Fluval 404 canister filter for several months without any problems. Some here may say they cause too many nitrates but I never experienced that with mine. Although, they're a little bit of a pain to clean. Your penguins may be okay. Just make sure they're powerful enough to handle your tank and you have good aerobic bacteria growing on your bio-wheels. This bacteria may take several weeks or months to grow.

5) A good powerhead to keep the waterflow in your tank.

6) A good water test kit. (you might have one already)

7) A good salt mix such as Instant Ocean.

8) Optional RO/DI filter to filter tap water. You might have this already. This is something I'm investing in.

9) Turkey baster.

Hopefully, you already have a heater, thermometer, and cleaning instruments from your freshwater setup. You should be okay with your lights unless you'd like to add another fixture to brighten things up.

If money is not much of an issue and are deciding to add corals later, invest in a good sump which will make an awesome FOWLR tank for now and allow you to ditch your penguin filters. With a sump, you can accomplish chemical, biological, and mechanical filtration along with protein skimming. Plus, depending on the design and what's in it, they can be easier to maintain than canister or hang-on filters. It's possible to convert your 20 Gallon to a sump and so you'll have to do your research on how to set up baffles, an in-sump skimmer, pumps, and plumbing provided that your a DIY type of person. You'll definitely need an overflow box if it's not built into your tank already.

Hope this helps...

Have been reading more and have more questions now. If I get the overflow for my tank, can I put my skimmer and heater in the sump in my cabinet? What else do I need for the sump? Sorry to be a pain but this is the best way to get my questions answered. Thanks!!!

[teresad134]

I can't promise that I won't want to add corals and anemones later so I better go the sump route. I don't know much about the sump, but am trying to read about it. If I don't buy a pre made sump, is it hard to convert the 20 galloon tank I have to a sump. I am not sure what I will need to do. I have also read different information about tap water. Some say tap water, declorinated) is ok to use. I am in a rural area and on well water. We have a whole house water filter system in place already, but I am not sure if this is good enough. If anyone has good info on sumps or how to make them, let me know.

PS. What do I need the turkey baster for?

Thanks!

If you've committed to doing a FOWLR tank ONLY and have absolutely no desire in doing a reef tank in the future (swear up and down), it's really not neccessary to set up a sump especially if you don't have much bread to break. But remember, planning it all out and making good decisions is key to this hobby. Also, keep up your water changes since it's probably one of the most important aspects. Here's what you'll need if you don't go the sump route and are somewhat on a budget:

1) A VERY GOOD hang-on Protein Skimmer (the best you can afford). Here's just a few: Bak-Pak II from cpraquatic.com, Euroreef Skimmers, Lifereef Skimmers from lifereef.com, and skimmers from myreefcreations.com. Check out the sponsors page for others. For a new skimmer, they can range from $100 to several hundred. Do your research. If you don't get a skimmer, you'll need to do frequent water changes while spending more time monitoring your water chemistry.

2) Liverock - as much as you can afford. The more, the better since it takes care of your biological filtration. For me, 2lbs per gallon of water is what I have. Some others will say one pound or even three lbs per gallon.

3) Livesand - optional but acts as biological filtration as well. I'd recommend it. A 2 - 4 inch sand bed is good.

4) A good external filter. I used a Fluval 404 canister filter for several months without any problems. Some here may say they cause too many nitrates but I never experienced that with mine. Although, they're a little bit of a pain to clean. Your penguins may be okay. Just make sure they're powerful enough to handle your tank and you have good aerobic bacteria growing on your bio-wheels. This bacteria may take several weeks or months to grow.

5) A good powerhead to keep the waterflow in your tank.

6) A good water test kit. (you might have one already)

7) A good salt mix such as Instant Ocean.

8) Optional RO/DI filter to filter tap water. You might have this already. This is something I'm investing in.

9) Turkey baster.

Hopefully, you already have a heater, thermometer, and cleaning instruments from your freshwater setup. You should be okay with your lights unless you'd like to add another fixture to brighten things up.

If money is not much of an issue and are deciding to add corals later, invest in a good sump which will make an awesome FOWLR tank for now and allow you to ditch your penguin filters. With a sump, you can accomplish chemical, biological, and mechanical filtration along with protein skimming. Plus, depending on the design and what's in it, they can be easier to maintain than canister or hang-on filters. It's possible to convert your 20 Gallon to a sump and so you'll have to do your research on how to set up baffles, an in-sump skimmer, pumps, and plumbing provided that your a DIY type of person. You'll definitely need an overflow box if it's not built into your tank already.

Hope this helps...

[Poseidon]

The Turkey baster is for spot feeding corals. Also for blowing detritus off of rocks and such. Sumps are very simple, don't make it hard. You would just use silicone Aquarium sealant to glue some baffles in place in an order like this water goes Under, over, under. This way any bubbles that come down from the overflow will be trapped in the first section. Then in the next compartment you have an area to put heater live rock macro algaes whatever you want, then you have one more baffle that goes from the bottom up to whatever level you want your sump to run at, this keeps sand and algae from being sucked up into the pump... Like I said before, the sump is just a place to keep the ugly stuff hidden. It also adds more volume of water, which helps to increase stability.

As far as well water goes I WOULD NOT USE IT! I tried to top off my tank ONCE with my well water and I got the LARGEST ALGAE bloom known to MAN!!! It was CRAZY! I spent about 100 bucks on a RO/DI from E-bay and it has worked perfectly! Think of it this way, if YOU had to spend your entire life in water, wouldn't you want it to be as clean as possible? Would you want to be breathing in all kinds of metals and phosphates if there was a better option? I didn't think so. Neither will your fish.

[WuTang]

Check out the following for some helpful info about sumps (click on the top links). He can also build you a sump as well:

http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

I can't promise that I won't want to add corals and anemones later so I better go the sump route. I don't know much about the sump, but am trying to read about it. If I don't buy a pre made sump, is it hard to convert the 20 galloon tank I have to a sump. I am not sure what I will need to do. I have also read different information about tap water. Some say tap water, declorinated) is ok to use. I am in a rural area and on well water. We have a whole house water filter system in place already, but I am not sure if this is good enough. If anyone has good info on sumps or how to make them, let me know.

PS. What do I need the turkey baster for?

Thanks!