Sump Set-up Questions

[NoSump]

Despite my handle, I have come to the conclusion (far too late) that I will need to employ a sump. I could easily have purchased the reef ready version of my 72Gal Oceanic tank, when I purchased my set-up back in November. Unfortunately, I did not, and now could kick my self for being penny wise, and dollar foolish.

Here's my question, my tank is up and running, I do not want to drain and drill the tank (even if it were possible); is there a way to add a sump to the existing tank via hoses over the back of the tank?

My tank is in a third floor study in my home. Any leakage would be an unimaginable mess. Are there safe ways to add a non-drilled sump that will a) not look terrible B) be safe from overflow C) provide all of the benefits of a sump?

Thank you for whatever advise that you can provide.

Chuck

[Reefland]

Hi Chuck,

Your in luck, there are options available to you. There are external overflow boxes available that allow people to run a sump without having a drilled tank. The box isn't unsightly although it will require a bit of room behind your tank between the tank and the wall. Usually 4-5" will be enough. Check out Lifereef.com and CPR Aquatics for a couple of versions of the overflow; the Lifereef would be my suggestion.

The key to external overflow is to make sure it is a "continuous siphon" overflow, that is that the siphon will hold and start back up after a power outage. If the siphon breaks and the return pump restarts, you could end up with a mess. The Lifereef model has a good reputation and shouldn't be a problem, although something you should research and be aware of.

[NoSump]

Reefland:

Thank you. What size would you recommend for a 72 Gallon tank? Also, will that type of sump provide sufficient space to place skimmers, heater, etc.

My primary reason (it may not be a good one) for wanting a sump, is to clear my display tank of the growing clutter of contraptions.

Chuck

[Reefland]

Chuck,

That is an excellent reason to add a sump, in addition to providing more water volume thus helping to provide a more stable environment.

For a sump, the biggest you can fit is always best. Under our 75, I was able to get a 20 gallon sump (standard 20 gallon aquarium) under the tank along with out light ballasts and now a dual chamber calcium reactor. Through this sump, we run about 700gph. I would think a single Lifereef overflow with a Mag 9 would be very nice for your tank with as large of a sump as you can fit.

[NoSump]

Reefland:

Thank you - that's very encouraging.

I purchased the Remora Pro skimmer (w/mag 4) based on your recommendation. Even though it is a HOT model- I assume that I can have it "HOT" on the sump (If I get a sump high enough, and have enough room under my stand)?

Chuck

[Reefland]

Yes you can. The only challenge that you may face is noise from water falling from the skimmer since the water level in the sump will be several inches below the rim. You should be able to mitigate this with something DIY, you'll have to experiment when you get to that point. If you were using the Maxi Jet 1200 with the skimmer I would be a little worried about lost performance since the water would be pumping to the skimmer from a longer distance but with the Mag 4, you shouldn't see any reduced performance.

[Poseidon]

I like the CPR's, I have the 102 mosel and my best friend has the next one up, can't remember the model #. Neither of us has had any issues with it quitting. I use a MJ1200 with the venturi adapter to hook up to the air vent line and it keeps it going strong! Plus this overflow doen't protrude into the tank any more than an 1.1/2 at most.

As for the size of the sump, I agree bigger is better! I would recommend a MAG 9.5 for return at LEAST you may even get a bigger one and just valve it back a little!

[NoSump]

Thanks guys,

It sounds like a plan. What do you keep in your sump? Do you keep sand, algae, filtration media, etc.? It will be great to "clean up" my display tank.

I was a bit concerned about the floor wieght of my 72 gallon, I wouldn't imagine that an extra 20 gallons should make much difference?

Chuck

[NoSump]

Reefland/Posiedon:

I've read the company propaganda on both the CPR units and the Reeflife.

It sounds as though the primary benefit of the Reeflife is that it's siphon system does not rely on a powerhead to remove air bubbles? If you believe the promotional material, they make a good case for the safety of the unit.

The cost difference between the units is small (even smaller, if you need to add a powerhead to the CPR).

Are the CPRs more prone to overflow risk? Is there any benefit to the powerhead design of CPR vs. Reeflife that I am missing? Thanks.

Chuck

[Poseidon]

The overflow problem is the biggest knock against the CPR. However it can be overcome simply enough. WHen I set up my sump baffles on the left side I have an "under" then a "over" then I have empty space where I keep my Algaes and heater. Then I have another "over' baffle, this keeps the pump from completely emptying out the sump into the tank. The last baffle creates a small volume of water that the pump can pump back in, when that last chamber is empty nothing more can go into the tank, to cause a mess. Also make sure you run the water level of the sump low enough that IF you have a power outage any water that goes into the sump will not make it overflow onto the floor... You may want to put a check valve in line with your return pump that way if the power does fail it won't back siphon and flood the sump, or you can just drill a small hole right at the waters surface to let air in should the power ever fail, this will break the siphon and prevent the mess as well...

[NoSump]

[QUOTE=Poseidon]The overflow problem is the biggest knock against the CPR. However it can be overcome simply enough.

Poseidon:

With your "keep it simple" approach in mind - isn't it easier to simply buy a Lifereef overflow and forego the CPR modifications?

Of course, that assumes the Lifereef is in fact "safer" than CPR. Their site claims that they have never had a reported tank overflow in 18 years (sounds like a bit of a stretch). It sounds as though the key difference is that Lifereef uses large syphon tubes. I would gladly pay three times as much if I were certain that I would never have a tank overflow. I'm in an area that experiences a great deal of lighting storms (and subsequent power failures) in the summer.

Chuck

Chuck

[Poseidon]

Wasn't really any big deal, just one extra piece of glass to get piece of mind. And to be honest I bought the CPR because it does NOT protude into the tank so far... I'll get a picture... the first is the airline that pulls the bubbles out of the top section of the "C" most of the time it is just water, I covered that line with the black plastic loom to keep algae from growing in it and plugging the flow. The second picture shows the water actually flowing into the unit, you can see it protudes into the tank about 1.5" at MOST!!! Some other boxes protude 4-5" and that takes up a fair amount of space, plus it is way bulkier and UGLY in the tank!

[Reefland]

18 years (sounds like a bit of a stretch).

I don't recall every hearing one story either about the Lifereef model; it is a well built unit. The CPR's are safe too as long as you add the powerhead as Mike has done. My personal preference ould be for the lifereef though.

[NoSump]

Thanks guys, that's very helpful advice.

Chuck

[flip_3_6_0]

Hey no sump. I to made the stupid mistake of thinking i didnt want a sump so i later had to add a HOT overflow and a sump. Unfortunatly, the 29gal sump i had would not fit under my stand, the center brace prevented this, so i had to set up my sump next to the tank instead of under it. Even still, im very happy i made the investment the tank looks much cleaner without all the crap in it. here are some pics of my sump and overflow.(notice the longer hose i had to add to my remora pro) Also i use the airlifter pumpwith my my cpr overflow and have had zero problems.

[NoSump]

FLIP 3 6 0:

Thank you - a picture is worth a thousand words. Your pictures cleared up alot of the confusion that I had about how to set up a sump (it's amazing how little information there is about sumps in the reefing books that I have read).

I gather that when I purchase the overflow, it comes with no tubing or connectors (likewise the pump). Therefore, you need to buy an overflow, a pump, a tank, tubing, and connectors? I noticed that you had baffles (as described by Posieden) in your tank. Did you purchase those as a kit, or did you simply buy pieces of cut glass, and use tank silicon to glue them in place?

Also, your sump appears to be fairly empty (aside from the heater and skimmer - I have the exact same model/which helped visualize my set-up). With that type of set-up, I would assume that the sump does not provide any filtering benefits?

Is it necesary (or desirable) to add a sand bottom, filter media, macro algae, etc. If I add a sump, I want to be able to get rid of my canister filter.

Thanks,
Chuck

[flip_3_6_0]

FLIP 3 6 0:

Thank you - a picture is worth a thousand words. Your pictures cleared up alot of the confusion that I had about how to set up a sump (it's amazing how little information there is about sumps in the reefing books that I have read).

I gather that when I purchase the overflow, it comes with no tubing or connectors (likewise the pump). Therefore, you need to buy an overflow, a pump, a tank, tubing, and connectors? I noticed that you had baffles (as described by Posieden) in your tank. Did you purchase those as a kit, or did you simply buy pieces of cut glass, and use tank silicon to glue them in place?

Also, your sump appears to be fairly empty (aside from the heater and skimmer - I have the exact same model/which helped visualize my set-up). With that type of set-up, I would assume that the sump does not provide any filtering benefits?

Is it necesary (or desirable) to add a sand bottom, filter media, macro algae, etc. If I add a sump, I want to be able to get rid of my canister filter.

Thanks,
Chuck

I took those picture the day i set up the sump. I bought my overflow from an LFS and it came with the airlifter pump and some tubing, but i dont think it would have cost anymore to buy them seperatly. Marine Depot is good choice for an online vendor. The baffles are just peices of acrylic i got from the local glass shop, they were very inexpensive since you can use very thin acrylic. Since setting up the sump ive added some live rock and some macro. So it does have a filtration benefit not to mention the added water volume (Dillution is the solution to pollution). I would only add sand if you plan on keeping a sand loving animal in the sump (like a pistol shrimp/gobie combo) and i would get rid of the canister even if you dont add a sump, IMO your primary filtration should be a good strong skimmer as mechanical filtration can lead to a build up of nitrates.