[Poseidon]

I think the problem lies in that the weight is not distributed over the entire surface area, just the perimeter! Which makes it much closer to 12lbs per inch! Plus do you want to risk 200+ gallons of water following the path of least resistance?

[Boostable]

3/4" Styro across the base "as most do now" should solve the distro problem.. Of course I think this is a good idea regardless of the stand type..

[BubbaWPB]

Well, I got a reply back from Perfecto when I requested technical info... and Ninong was on the right track: 1 year warranty if not a Perfecto stand, 20 year warranty with a Perfecto stand. I think I'll be checking out the Perfecto stands...

That sorta sheds light on the question: tubular steel, wood, or Perfecto? Perfecto looks like it has the advantage going into the final round....

[Boostable]

Well im pretty sure perfecto stands are all wood...

BTW.. I PM'ed you about something...

JW

[johnny gray]

Originally Posted by charlie

You wouldn't happen to have a pic of that, would you?

sorry i took so long but heres the best i could do
i don't know if I'm doing this right I'm new to computers

[Poseidon]

Geez do you think Perfecto is PROUD of there stands? 20 years? That is INCREDIBLE!

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by BubbaWPB

Well, I got a reply back from Perfecto when I requested technical info... and Ninong was on the right track: 1 year warranty if not a Perfecto stand, 20 year warranty with a Perfecto stand. I think I'll be checking out the Perfecto stands...

That's a longer warranty than I expected. The information I gave came from a vendor's website -- a vendor who sells Perfecto aquariums. Maybe he's misinformed? He posted their warranty as 90-days without a Perfecto stand or 5 years with one. That would be in line with their competition.

However, if you have an official printed warranty from Perfecto that tells you it's 1 year without their stand and 20 years with their stand, then so much the better for you. Be sure to keep the warranty and a copy of your sales receipt showing the date you purchased the tank and the stand. You will need those in the event of a claim. You will want to read the fine print very carefully. Most aquarium manufacturers void their warranty entirely if there are ANY modifications to the tank or their stand after manufacture. Any modifications at all. To either the tank or the stand. Also, some warranties are so restrictive and narrowly written that they cover only failure of the glass to glass sealant if caused by a manufacturing defect and nothing else. And often they require that you "return the aquarium to the vendor" for warranty claim consideration.

If you have a copy of the warranty, you could post the specifics just for kicks. These things get rewritten so often it's interesting to see what they're up to.

[BubbaWPB]

Thanks again, Ninong for the "heads up." Now after reading the print, it seems that I have to send in the registration within 10 days of purchase! I better get on the ball here!

[Ninong]

I'm surprised that it's a 20-year warranty if you purchase their stand. Oceanic has only a 5-year warranty if you purchase their stand. They used to have a 15-year warranty several years ago before they were bought out by All-Glass. And then All-Glass (including their Oceanic Systems Division) was bought out by that Garden Supply company out of Lafayette, CA a few years back. When All-Glass bought Oceanic, they cut the warranty from 15 years to 5 years and then when the Garden Supply guys bought them, the warranty was rewritten again to make it even more restrictive.

All of the aquarium manufacturers' warranties try to exclude consequential damages but some states have laws that may allow you recourse against them under certain circumstances. And all of their warranties say that you have to return the aquarium to the LFS for replacement but I know a lot of people who haven't had to do that. They just make the LFS guy come out to their house to see the destruction instead.

Be sure to retain copies of your sales receipts. You need to send in the original sales receipts for the tank and the stand when you register the warranty but then you need a copy of the sales receipt whenever you try to file a warranty claim with the vendor to prove date of purchase.

If you do not plan on getting one of their Perfecto stands, then you may want to fill your tank with water as soon as possible just to make sure it doesn't leak. Just make sure it's resting on a solid, flat surface when you do that.

[BubbaWPB]

OK.... the stand is ordered. Now let's talk about lights. I'm getting a canopy. We're talking retrofit DIY. Gene was nice enough to send me this link for reflectors http://www.reefexotics.com/lumenarc.htm . Looks good to me. Now please be patient with me, electronics are not my strong suit... if I'm gonna do 3 400W MH lamps with these reflectors, what else do I need to get them up and running over the tank? Ballasts? Bulbs? Anything else? Am I reading that web page right - the reflectors come with sockets? Those sockets are single-ended, right? Does anyone have a copy of "DIY MH Retrofit Aquarium Lights for Dummies" they want to sell?

If I wanna add PC actinics, they would just be attached separately with their own reflectors, ballasts, etc. and so forth?

P.S. I already plan on adding fans to the canopy.

[Poseidon]

Yup, that is what you need. Ballasts and Bulbs. For your Actinic, you may want to go with VHO rather then PC, trust me VHO actinic looks the BEST even if it is older tech. You can get VHO ballasts pretty cheap, a company called "Fulham" makes a workhorse ballast that should do the trick. I ordered my ballast from Greybar a few years ago, it was $60 and lights a SINGLE 6' VHO.

I just use the internal reflector on the VHO, since it is just there to add color no sense complicating the setup with more reflectors.

Make sure to check out SanJays site to compare bulbs and ballasts, it is a great way to determine which bulb/ballast combination will give the most PAR, or PPFD as Sanjay prefers.

I'll see if I can find that link....

[zhenya]

I think Mike got you covered on what you need as far as metal halides are concerned.
Sanjay's website is here: http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/index.htm

As far as reflectors, either call or email Anthony, he very helpful fella and uses them as well on his own tank, so I think he can shed some light(no pun intended ) on specifics for his set up.
Those reflectors also come with thier own quick disconnects which could be easily wired to any ballast cables and then simply plugged to the reflectors.
By the way, I just got two of those last night and will be setting them up either this weekend or next week, time permitting. I intend on using my old workhorse ballast( PFO's HQI) with those reflectors to drive my 250w Reeflux bulbs.

[Poseidon]

Thanks Gene, I need to save that link! I couldn't find it!

[BubbaWPB]

Well, I've spent some time on Sanjay's website. I got to the point of data overload... too bad there's not a "Sanjay's Website for Dummies". Anyway, it's difficult to me to tell when you compare two bulbs, what is significant and what isn't. I know that spikes in the low to mid 400's mean that there is a lot of blue. Beside that, I can't make heads or tails of it... not sure about things like "how intense is the light at what depth" is even covered in the bulb comparisons. If it is, it's over my head.

Anywho, one of the worker bees at the LFS took me around the store today and showed me some of the differences in the lights. It was somewhat helpful, but I'm still confused.

Question 1: What is "HQI" and are all HQI bulbs double-ended?
Question 2: Do 400W metal halide bulbs come in DE? I can't seem to find any... but that just may be my ignorance.

Putting combinations of reflectors, ballasts, bulbs, etc together, it's looking like it may be minimally more expensive to get a 6 foot custom retro-fit light fixture from Hamilton... 3 400W 10K, 2 96W actinics. Upgraded to the high-tech reflectors, and the digital whatever (not magnetic) ballast... and they even add a lens (I hadn't even considered that with the DIY piece-by-piece). By my calculations, it's only about $200 more than the piece-by-piece stuff and it is much more "idiot proof". ...any thoughts?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by BubbaWPB

Question 1: What is "HQI"

It's an acronym meaning Mercury (Hg) Quartz Iodide. Some people say it means Halogen Quartz Iodine. And I have even seen it claimed that it means High Quartz Iodide. I prefer Mercury Quartz Iodide myself.

It's in the same category as calling an actinic fluorescent lamp an "03" actinic. The 03 designation is part of the product code for a Philips actinic fluorescent lamp that was one of the earliest and most popular actinic lamps. Thereafter, competitors liked to say that their lamps were "03" actinics. HQI is similar in that those initials were part of the product designation of one of the German manufacturers (probably Osram but I can't remember right now and I'm not looking it up). So if you want to be really technical, only that manufacturer's lamps are HQI.

However, none of that really matters because HQI has taken on a definition of its own as used in the hobby. Many hobbyists used HQI to refer to double-ended metal halide lamps but this is just a popular use in the U.S. European hobbyists use HQI to refer to virtually all metal halide lamps.

...and are all HQI bulbs double-ended?

Interesting question. In common usage, all double-ended metal halide lamps are called HQI. European manufacturers use HQI to describe both double-ended and single-ended metal halide lamps. More confusion.

Some U.S. vendors seem to use HQI to designate metal halide lamps, whether double- or single-ended, that require so-called HQI ballasts. More confusion if you try to define an HQI ballast.

Question 2: Do 400W metal halide bulbs come in DE?

Yes, they do. I believe they've been out on the market for less than two years now.

I can't seem to find any... but that just may be my ignorance.

Maybe you just haven't searched hard enough online. They're out there and they're available at U.S. online vendors.

Putting combinations of reflectors, ballasts, bulbs, etc together, it's looking like it may be minimally more expensive to get a 6 foot custom retro-fit light fixture

I hate to get into this aspect but here goes. If you are going with a canopy, you are almost always better off avoiding the ready-made fixtures UNLESS you intend mounting the fixture ON TOP OF the canopy. Mounting an enclosed fixture inside an enclosed canopy is almost always a mistake for several reasons.

But before we even get into that, did you ever say how tall this canopy is going to be? It will have to be a MINIMUM of 12" tall if you plan on using 400w metal halide lamps. Many of the ready-made manufacturers' canopies are not tall enough for halides. Something to consider.

There are many different brands of lighting fixtures besides the brand you named. This is an area where you get what you pay for. I would avoid the less expensive fixtures. Again, you have to determine if you really want a fixture or not.

Personally, I like the metal halide fixtures that combine halide lamps with actinic supplementation but I wouldn't use one with a canopy unless I placed it on top of the canopy.

[Poseidon]

Well I think Ninong has you covered there. If you do a DE 400W then YES you will need a lens/cover/shield to filter UV. If you do SE then you do not need the shield.

When you look at Sanjay's data, the BIGGEST thing to look at is PPFD. The higher the number the better. The color # has to do with the appearance of the bulb. MOst folks like the 10K and higher bulbs, personally I do not care for 20K they are too BLUE. I hate to endorse one particular bulb when their are so many to choose from, but I like the XM 10K. It is a good balance between color and PPFD.

[BubbaWPB]

Thanks, Ninong. No wonder I was confused about the HQI stuff... it sounds pretty inconsistent.

I very much appreciate your opinion (and others', too). It helps me avoid ex$pensive re-equiping. I was wondering about the canopy height myself since the better reflectors seem to be a bit thicker (higher?) than 2D parabolic ones.

My 75 gallon is canopy-less and the glare from the lights over the top of the tank is annoying when viewing from tank level or below (i.e. when I sit in a chair and watch). I think you said that you have a black acrylic shield thingy on your tank to block the glare. I've used a black towel laid over the light when taking photos to cut the glare from between the lights and the tank - not a good permanent solution. The lighting on the new tank will definitely be higher off the ground, so the lights would be shining in my eyes over the top of the tank without a canopy for sure. I'm also concerned with the canopy turning the tank into a crock pot with 3 400W halides (even with exhaust fans)! 265 gallons of bouillabaise would serve more friends and aquaintances that I have!

I'd like this setup to be appealing in all aspects - including the "furniture". I'd like the canopy to match the stand in style, color, and compostion. I feel post-manufacture modifications coming....

Thanks again for your input - I think I'll wait to make the final decision on the lights until after the canopy arrives. Putting the lights on top of the canopy sounds like an option if the canopy is too shallow. I also noted that the better reflectors for DIY piece-by-piece are no thinner than the retrofit kits, so I would anticipate the same problem with canopy height whether or not I go with the kit.

[Ninong]

My 120-gal tank is open topped but it has a removable black acrylic shield to block light spill from my metal halide fixture which is mounted 11" above the surface. I use white eggcrate to keep fish from jumping out of the tank or into the corner overflow.

[BubbaWPB]

The black acrylic shield is the same dimensions as the tank and sits on the rim?

[Ninong]

The tank sits on what was originally a built-in china hutch in what was formerly the dining room. The rear half of the tank is enclosed, so the acrylic shields are only required for the front of the tank and the front half of the sides. The shields are three separate sections that rest on top of the rim of the tank. The white eggcrate covers just the front 12" or the top of the tank area because the rest is protected by the light fixtures and the fact that the rear half of the tank is enclosed.

Pic #1: Shows three separate pieces that rest on the top rim of the tank.

Pic #2: Shows the little "clasp" that I made from scrap acrylic that is glued to each section to grip the top rim of the tank.

Pic #3: This is a picture of the one-piece acrylic shield that fits around the bottom of the tank to shield the 6" DSB.

Pic #4: Picture of the initial tank setup. This proved unsatisfactory and had to be modified. I didn't make the top shield high enough to block the light spill from the metal halide fixture. Subsequently I added 3" to the top shields and 1-1/2" to the bottom shield. This was possible because the original shields were made using 1/4" acrylic and I was able to get some 1/8" acrylic and simply glue that inside the original pieces to add more height. It worked out better than I expected. Also, I gained some valuable experience working with acrylic and acrylic cement and a better appreciation for those who know what they're doing with this stuff. Another modification since that picture was taken is that I installed a black acrylic shield inside the corner overflow compartment to block the view of the white standpipe. My corner overflow compartment is made a gray-tinted glass that is semi-transparent. It now has a piece of 1/8" black acrylic glued inside the front pane. In case you're wondering, the tank itself is made of Starphire glass with a black mirrored back.