[bubble]

Ok after a few days of research (i bought saltwater aquariums FOR DUMMIES) I think I have a basic plan for what I want in my tank

Tank size : 30 gallon long
glass top
strip light
50 gallon salt mix
aragonite 30lbs
eheim 2213 filter
powerhead (301?)
100w eheim heather
15lbs cured live rock (7.98/lb)

total cost: $494.52 + tax

now, the fish

I was thinking

2 redi seahorses (or one)

3 captive bred percula clowns (or two)

3 neon gobies (or two)

now these are ideas, but these are the fish that i really really want, and I looked them up and everything seemed like it would fit

and as another idea

one yellow tang
(I know a lady who has had one in a 30 for 4 years and its happy!!)

well its WAY late, i'm going to bed

night-
jake
-aka bubble

[BubbaWPB]

Bubble, the yellow tang is a bit agressive to have in the tank with sea horse, IHMO. Although the sea horse probably won't get beat up by the tang, the seahorse may have difficulties competing for food.

Read a lot about sea horses before you get one. They have special needs.

Good luck.

[smidoid]

I'm with Bubba.

My LFS said that to keep horses you should only keep them in a tank without fish and perhaps with SMALL inverts. Most experts recommend newbies (and I'm in that area too, for marine) steer well clear. They need fairly still water and I read that they can be funny eaters.

Actually, writing that I can imagine the problem. Poor little buggers have tiny mavouvring fins - put them in a typical reef with the necessary pumps and currents and they'll get blown about like leaves. Probably quite amusing at first, but it'll kill them in no time flat.

Tank bred Clowns are a super idea though. Good for the environment and more sturdy than live caught fish. I suspect you might be better with two rather than three - and DON'T add them all at once or you'll overload the biological filter and kill everything. You might be better of starting off with a couple of Damioselles (they look a bit like scaled-down Regal Tangs) but they're a bit tetchy with other tankmates, I hear.

Something else to consider is a nitrate kit - to check everything's going as it should.

And finally - don't forget you will need a protein skimmer. These beggars are expensive but a good one is worth the extra (says he who bought a Seaclown!).

[bubble]

bubba, the yellow tang would be alone in my tank if i did decide to get one..smidoid, do you think that the perculas and the seahorses would work well together??

[Otters]

If you take a look at the Compatibility Chart, seahorses hardly are compatible with any fish, thats why you either have a FO tank or Seahorse tank, and Seahorse are very expensive.

[Steven Pro]

I would not get the Eheim canister filter. It is unnecessary. Instead, I would add a hang-on refugium. I also don't see any protein skimmer in your setup. I would get one of those as well. CPR makes a protein skimmer/refugium combination that works rather well.

I would get more liverock, about 30 pounds, instead of just 15.

For livestock, I would not suggest seahorses for your very first marine aquarium. Instead, I would suggest something like this:
2 neon gobies (captive raised)
2 ocellaris clownfish (captive raised)
and 2 captive raised pseudochromis

By the way, that saltwater for Dummies book is one of the worst. A much better one if Michael Paletta's The New Marine Aquarium.

[bubble]

why is it the worst book? its written by a marine biologist.. and it seems about up to par with everything else i have read and heard throughout my reaserching.

[Frag Hag]

Hi Bubble -

If you're really, truly interested in keeping seahorses, read this:



and this:

http://www.seahorse.org/cgi-bin/faq/smartfaq.cgi

Still interested? If so, please spend some more time browsing the library and forum at: http://www.seahorse.org/. Education is your (and your seahorse's) best friend!

Good Luck!

Shay

[Frag Hag]

Ooops... Pardon the usage of invisible link.

Here it is:

http://www.seahorse.org/library/arti...sAndInfo.shtml

[Steven Pro]

Originally Posted by bubble

why is it the worst book? its written by a marine biologist.. and it seems about up to par with everything else i have read and heard throughout my reaserching.

You don't have to take my word for it. Read this review here,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/salth2odummies.htm

[smidoid]

All dummies books are mono (so far as I know). Very few marine fish are so dull. In fact, very few fish are black and white - the only ones that come immediately to mind are Zebra Danios (fresh) and Dominos (marine).

I would agree with Stephen even though I've not seen the book, I can hardly imagine it's much good. I could have written it from what I've read (I used to write computer books in my heyday along similar lines). Though I'd like to think mine were better... arhum.

So it's written by a marine biologist - not all that well judging by the review. Er, so what? I'd much rather take the word of someone who's kept fish on OUR scale for years than someone who did it all in a classroom with a bit of practical work on a reef massaged by billions of gallons of water. There a whole host of different problems.

You wouldn't, for instance, take a normal driver and enter him/her into the Indy 5000? Sure they're all CARS but the environment is rather different. We're not just doing things in minature, we're also doing things differently. The redox potential is different in "normal" seawater to that in our tanks; we have to rely on changing water to remove nitrates; we have to use protein skimmers in place of the waves crashing on rocky shorelines.... and so on.

If you want to go really mad (!) you can get filters that sterilize the water using Ozone (O3) or Ultraviolet light; ones that remove the nitrate/nitrite using drip fed bacteria (such as coil denitriters) but can also poison the water too; you can even use fluidized bed filters to grown yer own bacteria... oh boy. Everyone's trying to sell you something.

My first marine book is by Dick Mills "A practical guide to setting up your marine tropical aquarium" ISBN: 1-903098-02-5

It's all colour with some beautiful photography and it's cheap - possibly only available in the UK though! It covers skimmers, tanks, filters and the usual ya-de-ya with mentions of the other stuff like Berlin (LR) method and even the Jaubert system. It's basic with lots of colour pictures illustrating stuff you NEED to know (real pictures of fish afflicted with Marine Ich and Hole in the Head for instance). This is the sort of book we should all start with - basic, step by step and in glorious colour.

Experts reckon you need 1 to 1.5lbs of LR per gallon (no more, apparently) - as Stephen says 30lbs is nice; 15 would not give you the biofilter volume you need for even a few fish; and even then, the tank has to mature - even if you buy pre-cured rock.

You might be able to keep the hosses if you do as Stephen suggests and get a hang-on refugium - doesn't need to be massive and there are several commercial ones to chose from. With CARE you may be able to keep the horses in the fuge - separate from the fish and inverts. However, as I've said and I'm sure others will too - they can be fussy eaters and are not really for beginners. Personally, much as I would love to keep them, I can't cater for their needs so I won't.

Here's a quote from one of the guides: "Even the smallest sign of disease or injury can result in a mortality, as seahorses are extremely sensitive and often succumb to pathogens not common to other marine ornamental fish."

Tank-raised fish are the best bet by far. My LFS only get tank-raised percula clowns right now, but I'm leaning on them to get more varieties. Even if they cost us as few extra $ it's worth it to help keep up a balance on the reef.

Aragonite is what I use for dressing - expensive but worth it; but don't neglect your salt mix! That should be good quality too. Presumably the dummies book mentions RO/DI water...

... oh boy, here I am waffling when I should be drilling holes in the house! Later peeps.

[bubble]

well, once I get the tank set up and cycled, I will go from there.

[WillieM96]

I don't think saltwater aquariums for dummies is nearly as bad as everyone is pointing out. I think some of the more serious aquarists have to remember that a lot of people enter this hobby knowing nothing and I think the book is a good introduction BUT I would not recommend running out and setting up your aquarium based solely on what you read in that book. The book gets you introduced into a lot of concepts that I wasn't clear on when I started and gave me a reference point to delve deeper into my research. I recommend it as a introductory book to get your feet wet but do more research before you start buying equipment.

[Steven Pro]

For a good beginner book(s), I much prefer Mike Paletta's The New Marine Aquarium or Nilsen & Fossa's Reef Secrets. Then, I recommend Scott Michael's Pocket Expert Guide Marine Fishes and Robert Fenner's The Conscientious Marine Aquarist.

[Steven Pro]

By the way, I am an avid reader. This is my library about a year ago. I have added about a half dozen or more volumes since this image was taken.

[BubbaWPB]

I've read a couple of dozen books - about 8 of them before I started my first tank. Although I really like the Dummies series for basic info on other subjects (my favorite is Buddhism for Dummies), the saltwater aquarium book for Dummies has to be one of the worst in the series. It has outdated info and is just plain a waste of time and money. There are better beginning books - like those mentioned above.

[smidoid]

[quote=Steven Pro]By the way, I am an avid reader. This is my library about a year ago. I have added about a half dozen or more volumes since this image was taken.
[quote]

An eloquent and prolific author too, Steven. I see you put your library to good use.

[CSeaSee]

Bubble- You certainly don't have to take the advice of the people on this forum- you are welcome to go it alone, but before you do, consider this: people lke Steven Pro are some of the best-known and most respected members in the global marine aquarium community. Not listening to their advice is, to be perfectly blunt, a bad idea. They're trying to help you succeed in the hobby, and that's why they're here.