[captain Jim]

I have been reading all the questions and answers daily on this site (and others) and have come to a realization that alot of beginners have a basic need for a complete setup of equipment to get started.

I havent found any supplier with such a setup for reef keeping.
yea Im sure that some of you would direct a beginner to go to a site where they can purchase individual equipment- but Im talking about something that they could buy as a package: lights, tank, filters, refugium you know the stuff all reefers basically buy, and then have different packages to choose from.
DO you realize how many beginners have questions on the equipment we all use? I just think that its hard enough starting a reef without stumbling through with trial and error trying to figure out all the equipment needed and what is generally used by sucessful reefers.
so many beginners giveup because of headaches like this and thats a shame!

[charlie]

You know, it sounds like a great idea, but the setup for a 100 gallon softie tank is going to be completely different than the setup for a 100 gallon sps tank, just to use an example. There are to many different variables to just sell a complete setup IMO, plus there are to many greedy LFS owners that will just sell you something for the sake of making a sale. A person needs to do the research before they go out and make a purchase.

[Steven Pro]

As Charlie has pointed out, the animals we call corals can be found for collection from 10 to 40 meters deep. That is a tremendous range in environmental conditions; lighting, flow, etc. No package can meet the needs of anything and everything.

[smidoid]

Jim has an idea in the making there. True, we can't account for ALL life-types in a single system - unless we can make it 40-50' deep (not in my house!).

However, we CAN design systems for different needs. A decent LFS should be able to do that: not that any of mine do this on a small scale; one does it for VERY rich customers.

Marine isn't about mix-and-match, but pre-designed starter systems should be available where you pay an upfront fee (100% is the only safe way) and get the stuff delivered over time.

1. A subscription to Reefland.com -or- several damn good books!
2. Day 1: Tank, pump, heaters, stand, skimmer, lighting, QT [essential] etc. and sufficient pre-mixed water to fill the system. (Or salt and RO/DI water.) This base system would be designed from a number of options to suit FOWLR, SPS, crabitat - whatever.
3. Day 3-5: Giving tank time to warm up. Add sufficient Live Rock.
4. Day 14-21: Initial water tests (included in price).
5. Repeat (4) as necessary until tests stabilise.
6. First fish. You would get a fish or livestock list with this setup - so you are encouraged to buy ONLY the stock that suits your system and then, in the correct order.

This way, we could actually give noobs a leg-up and hopefully happier fish and less death.

The problem with all this Jim, is one of cost! I wonder if any LFSs out there will take this challenge on...

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by captain Jim

I have been reading all the questions and answers daily on this site (and others) and have come to a realization that alot of beginners have a basic need for a complete setup of equipment to get started.

I havent found any supplier with such a setup for reef keeping.

What you are asking for is commonly available in Europe but not the United States. Deltec and Aqua-Medic both offer a wide range of complete reef-aquarium systems with all necessary equipment. They are virtually plug and play. They even offer computer-controlled models.

Check out this 300-gal system from Deltec. (Scroll down for a picture of the equipment inside the cabinet.) Deltec offers four different model lines and a variety of sizes in each line. Complete systems with tanks much larger than 300 gallons are available on a custom basis.

Here is Aqua-Medic's 200-gal system. They also offer 90-gal, 120-gal and 160-gal models.

Notice that Deltec is using T5 lighting on their top-of-the-line system whereas Aqua-Medic is using 250w HQI metal halides plus PC actinic supplementation.

P.S. -- Some of the equipment that may be popular in Europe is not in common use over here. You won't find the Deltec or Aqua-Medic aquarium systems available over here because the cost of freight would be prohibitive.

[captain Jim]

WOW thanks for the input guys!
All Im saying is that the basic beginner doesnt really know where to begin.
Furthermore I have noticed (as I am sure you all have) every pet store in every town offers a complete package to setup a freshwater system, yea shure I have seen where they attempt to say reef ready ,but what they are is.. ready if you know what to add to them from there! Thats where we loose the potential reefer, because he now looks at it and asks the uneducated clerk about saltwater and she has no clue and doesnt even sell saltwater.So now he buys the freshwater and thinks saltwater is too difficult for beginners anyway.
Yes I agree knowlege is the key, but if that same guy saw a site that offered a basic setup for saltwater he would at least would be on the right track!
BASIC guys! Equipment for maintaining liverock, anenomies, shrimp, damsels, clowns,etc.
Dont get into a debate on hard or soft corals we are talking about a guy who doesnt care as long as he can get started with something and grow from there as his knowlege does!
Thanks for the replies!

[smidoid]

I think the problem with marine Jim is that (compared to basic tropical fishkeeping) it's very, very complex and a lot more expensive. Frankly, most people aren't really up the work or the effort required.

When I kept tropical freshwater as a kid (guppies, glowlights, neons, zebra, etc.) the whole gizmo pretty much looked after itself. All the extra nutrients that got in through everyone sticking a "few flakes" in willy-nilly got exported through the vast amount of weed that I swapped for even more fish!

With marine, you just can't do that. The livestock is waaaaaaaay to sensitive.

Knowledge is power - and it's why in my case that I decided not to buy an African Grey parrot - even though I'd wanted one for ten years. When I checked out the care regime, I realised I couldn't do it!

[rayjay]

What "complete" package would you suggest the LFS stock? In my opinion, there is no one basic way that would apply to all new hobbyists.
Each hobbyist has a varied taste for everything from the tanks to lights to filtration, and it is not practical to stock many different packages and in different sizes to accomodate the wide range of tastes in the hobby.
I would never buy a package be it marine or fresh water as it can have items included that I don't want, so why waste the money.
What lighting would you put in the package? Some like M. Halides, VHO, NO, T8, T5, power compact, etc.....
I want to decide for myself just what I need for what I wish to have in my tanks so why allow an LFS to decide for me.
The new hobbyist that doesn't research beyond the LFS information might pay dearly for that, but the new hobbyist that DOES research well will be rewarded by not buying so much equipment that will end up being shelved, or, fish and inverts that die prematurely because of incompatability or improper accomodations.
A decent LFS will inform a newbie, ask questions, and try to help a new hobbyist to go in the direction he wishes to go, without undue pressure to set up according to the personal preferences of the owner