[billoreilly]

whats the general view on using a undergravel filter in a reef setup I was involved in the hobby 15 or more years ago and it was the normal thing to do

[The R/C Man]

Hey! Welcome to Reefland!

Undergravel filters are definitely inadaquate for maintaining a reef.

A very sucessful way to filter a reef tank is with the use of a sand bed, refugium, live rock and a protien skimmer. This is an attempt to mimic the natural ocean evironment and it does fairly well.

There are many things to consider when deciding to start a reef tank. First what do you want to keep? This may dictate the tank size to a degree. It will also point you toward certian light requirements etc. There are to many things to list but we will try to point you into the right dirrection. Be sure to do your research. Books and the internet are good resourse. Just becareful of the info you get. Make sure it is current and and has proven results.....

[rayjay]

Undergravel filters worked then and they work now. It's a case of understanding what each method can do for you in order to make it successful, no matter what system it is.
I personally prefer the pre-filtered, reverse flow undergravel filter to a straight undergravel filter.
I hooked a Hagen 802 power head up with a quick filter to pre filter, inserted a short lenght of 1/2" cpvc into the output and put an elbow on pointing downward. Inserted another piece of 1/2" cpvc going down to the "uplift" tube where I connected the cpvc to the uplift tube using the cone that comes with the power head.
Using the power head in normal mode, (not reverse flow) sucks the filtered water through and pushes it below the plate, to exit upwards through the substrate.
Works great as it doesn't suck the detritus down into the substrate and can be disturbed enough to go into the water column and be sucked out when doing water changes.
I wouldn't automatically say set up your tank this way unless you are converting a fresh water UGF to salt, as there are many ways to succeed in this hobby and you might find another method that you would like to try more.
I've done pretty well all the methods of the last 12 years but I still prefer the Berlin method with bare bottom for most of my tanks.

[Steven Pro]

While undergravel filters do work and reverse flow UG's are better, than are other methods that are easier to maintain. Liverock, sand, refugia, and protein skimming work just as well and are less maintenance.

[billoreilly]

sorry I should have been a little clearer the tank is a 30 gal with 2 ehiem 2222 a 10 gal sump and a skimmer it is also fitted with 2 150 per hour power heads and 2 96w vho compact fluros and approximately 40 lb of live rock I have to pull it down in the very near future as I am moving house and I am thinking that I might put shell grit and sand in with a under gravel rather than the 1/2 inch bed of sand I currently have

[The R/C Man]

rayjay,

So how much maintainence is involved in keeping that running and how are your nitrate readings?

[rayjay]

Originally Posted by The R/C Man

rayjay,

So how much maintainence is involved in keeping that running and how are your nitrate readings?

How does one quantify a thing like maintainence?
Different methods require varying ways to maintain, but most involve about the same amount of work in my experience.
I started with the prefiltered RFUGF, but when I got my larger tanks, I was influenced by seeing a tape narrated by Julian Sprung on Berlin systems.
I have in the many years since then, had plenum, SSB and DSB, and hybrids of the various types, but I still come back to Berlin for most of my tanks.
I don't believe the RFUGF was any more work than any other tank. I still had to clean the glass every 4 days or so, and I did water changes back then about once a month, and when vacuuming the water out, I sevearly disturbed the water over the sand to put detritus in suspension so I could remove a lot with the water change. When I replaced that RFUGF tank many years later, it was just on Berlin preference, not because of any problem or dislike of the system.
In the first 3 or 4 years, the nitrates were never a problem, partially because of having live rock, but also because the denitrification still occures in RFUGF because the water flow doesn't happen uniformly, and has many "dead" flow areas like a deep sand bed. I haven't ever checked for nitrates in the last 8 or so years now as I don't feel it's necessary. I can look at my tanks and know if there is something wrong.
Like many aspects of this hobby, I believe many things are overblown and the importance of nitrate testing after a tank has matured, is one of those, in my opinion. Normal husbandry keeps everything in line for me, and if it doesn't, it is because I've neglected doing a chore for one reason or another, and I fix it without needing a test.

[The R/C Man]

I have done some reading on plenums and other types of filtration by reputable names the hobby and they all seem to point towards the filtration method I have pointed out. Not to say that one way is wrong or right since a tank can be set up in multitude of ways. It just that it seems to be more benificial and less problematic than the others. At least that is my perception anyway.

With that said, I am definitely intregued by your set up and want to understand more about it. So what type of substrate do you use for that application? Are you running a skimmer?

As far as nitrate readings go I have come to a similar conclusion. After my tank had matured the nitrates have stayed at 0 so I have not performed that test since.

My goal has always been to keep maintainence to a minimum. One way to do that is to let the tank clean its self. So my normal routine consists of glass cleaning, water changes and cleaning the skimmer collection cup.

[rayjay]

The tank had 3 1/2" of aragonite over the UG plate. I had a small DIY skimmer hooked up as well.
I don't think this was less work than other systems I've used, but definitely not any more work.
The key was using prefiltered water before pumping it down under the plate to come up through the substrate, instead of pulling the detritus down into the substrate.