[Holly]

Got in my 180g and set it up on w LR & LS

Quest: The live rock and live sand seem dead to me ..Can't pick up any movement or signs of ANYWHERE. Is this normal?

I'm just a newbie and paranoid that my DSB will turn noxious on me if there really isn't anything live in there. How can I tell?

Here's some pics taken today.

[PJSea]

You won't see any "life" in your live sand.
What kind of rock did you buy, and where?

[Ninong]

Is that supposed to be 100 lbs of live rock? Whatever it is, you need some more. And what do you mean by 50 lbs live and 50 lbs NL? I'm not sure what you mean by "not live" rock? Is that base rock or what? Is this going to be a reef tank?

The important life in your live rock is inside the rock. That's where the beneficial bacteria are. And even if they aren't, they soon will be. Hopefully, if your live rock was really good live rock, you also have a lot of polychaetes and microcrustaceans (copepods & amphipods, etc.), that are hiding in the holes and nooks and crannies. Eventually the surface of the live rock will begin to color up with coralline algae and maybe other forms of life. I wouldn't be too concerned about the live rock, it will come along eventually.

What do you mean by 20 lbs of "live sand?" Was this real live sand or just make-believe live sand? Do you understand my question? If not, it's almost certainly make-believe live sand. Either way, you will want to add some life to your sandbed once your tank has completed the initial cycle. What are your current readings on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? The ammonia spikes first, followed by nitrite and eventually nitrate. Once ammonia and nitrite have spiked and then fallen to zero and the nitrate levels have dropped to no more than about 50 ppm, you have completed the initial cycle and it's time to add stuff to your sandbed.

When I started my 6" DSB in my 120-gal tank, I used all dead sand but then I added stuff to it after the initial cycle was complete. I purchased what are called detritivore kits from www.inlandaquatics.com and www.ipsf.com and I also bought stuff from www.reeftopia.com and live sand from a vendor in South Carolina who is no longer in business.

You don't have to go nuts like I did as long as you add something. I recommend the detritivore kit from Inland Aquatics as a first choice. I purchased that kit and had them add six of their so-called spaghetti worms to it. Those things are expensive, so you could get by with just three of them. Within 8-10 months, you will have dozens of them. The baby bristleworms will get big and reproduce within 8-10 weeks! They are very good scavengers for a reef tank. Don't go overboard on the snails until after your tank has more livestock in it. This is especially true for Nassarius snails. I had to feed mine because I didn't have enough natural waste for them to eat. They're carrion eaters (dead animals & meaty detritus). If possible, you want to add your snails gradually as your tank progresses. After a few months, you might add a small Holothurian sand cucumber and a single fighting conch (Strombus alatus).

I also purchased 14 lbs of real live sand from the guy in South Carolina who sold me my live rock. It had a lot of visible life in it. In addition, I got about 2 lbs of live sand from everybody else: Reeftopia, Inland Aquatics, and IPSF. If you know someone locally with a nice reef tank with a healthy sandbed, you might try to talk them into giving you a cup of live sand from their tank.

My goal was to get as much diversity as I possibly could for my sandbed and I believe I succeeded. My sandbed was very active and very much alive. I moved last month and had to sell off the tank. The 6" DSB was functioning perfectly after three years and there was no odor whatsoever when the buyer removed the sandbed. None at all, even when he got down to the bottom of the tank. And it was full of worms and other critters. He had to share the live sandbed with his two helpers as their reward for helping him.

P.S. -- In that Inland Aquatics kit, the following will reproduce in your tank: Amphipods, copepods, miniature brittle stars, micro stars, baby bristleworms, Stomatella varia and the so-called spaghetti worms. The Mysis shrimp and Gammarus shrimp could reproduce if they weren't eaten so fast by the other livestock in the tank. The amphipods and copepods will hide out and reproduce faster than the rate of predation. If possible, you want to add these things BEFORE you have any fish in your tank, otherwise you're just providing a very expensive snack for your fish. When adding stuff like this to a tank that already has fish, you have to wait until at least two hours after all lights are out at night so that the fish are asleep at the time. If you have some nocturnal fish, then you could be out of luck. In that case, you could try to place the bristleworms and spaghetti worms just under the live rock at the interface with the sandbed and hope that the fish don't see you. Not all fish will eat them, but some will.

[Holly]

I had 50lbs of nonliving base rocks with 50lbs living Fiji put over it. The Fiji came from the same place that put my tank together.

Today, I went to a different LFS and got 90 more lbs--2 big nice Fiji rocks and a magnificent 48lb Tongan. (I also got a titch more live sand since I was there: 6lbs). Unfortunately, the 48lb rock is so big and spread-out, we're going to need to have a friend come help us lift up the canopy to get the thing in the tank. I liked the rock so much when I saw it that I forgot to consider the size dilema.

The sand was about 300# bagged nonliving with about 20lbs of live sand seeded over it. By 'live sand' I mean the sand the LFS guy scooped out of his own tank of fish and bagged in water for me to come home and immediately sprinkle over my nonliving sand.

I was confused about 'live sand' because I thought that it implied the existance of not only the bacteria, but all the little zoos, pods, and worms you want in there, too. Now I get that it just means 'live' with bacteria. I was looking for worms, etc, and I didn't see any.

Gonna go ahead and order a kit now. Thanks for the site! I don't expect to have fish for a while, so I don't want to wait until then to get the kit. I'm gonna go slow with stocking because I have specific fish I want, and I don't want any of them to die.

I was advised not to get any snails until the cycle was complete. ?

The ammonia seemed to spike, and now the nitrites are up. Here are the daily stats: (I didn't have the kits on my first days, so I missed that; today is day 6)
Amm Nitrite Nitrate
2 0.25 10
3 0.4 5
0.5 0.5 5
0.25 3 20 <--today's

HEY! In the live sand the LFS gave me today, there was a hitchhiker! I have my first little snail crawling up the side of my tank! YAY! (Not a big deal, I know, but I've been planning this tank for over a year now, and the site of a crawling thing in it is like the realization of a dream right now) Will I need to feed it? Tank's pretty barren right now.

[Holly]

ordered the detri kit with 4 spaghetti worms added, to be delivered Tues am
=) thnx

[Ninong]

I was advised not to get any snails until the cycle was complete. ?

That's correct. You shouldn't add anything until after the INITIAL cycle is complete. That means that the ammonia is zero, the nitrite is zero or almost zero and the nitrate has spiked and fallen down to around 50 ppm or less. How long that takes varies depending on your live rock.

The live sand you purchased is better than what the LFS sells in prepackaged bags as live sand but not as good as live sand that was in a reef tank, assuming it was a real live sandbed in the reef tank.

You should contact Inland Aquatics and delay your order until after your tank has completed the initial cycle. You shouldn't add ANY livestock to a tank with 3.0 ppm nitrite. And your nitrite is still rising; it hasn't spiked yet. It has to spike and then fall back down. While it's falling down, your nitrate will still be rising.

[Holly]

I'll call inland when they open this morning. Not in a big rush; I just thought you were saying that I needed to get detr kit now, when I read your post. =)

Nitrite is 0.5 this morning from 3 yesterday, and my nitrate is up from 20 to 30. Ammonia is almost zero.

Took three of us a lot of time and rock turning to get that big Tongan in last night. Had to chip off an elbow, but it still looks great.

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Holly

I'll call inland when they open this morning. Not in a big rush; I just thought you were saying that I needed to get detr kit now, when I read your post. =)

You probably missed this part: "When I started my 6" DSB in my 120-gal tank, I used all dead sand but then I added stuff to it after the initial cycle was complete. I purchased what are called detritivore kits from www.inlandaquatics.com and www.ipsf.com and I also bought stuff from www.reeftopia.com and live sand from a vendor in South Carolina who is no longer in business."

Nitrite is 0.5 this morning from 3 yesterday, and my nitrate is up from 20 to 30. Ammonia is almost zero.

That means your nitrite has already spiked and is now falling. Your nitrate will continue to rise until it spikes and begins to fall. Once your nitrite is down to 0.1 ppm (or less) and your nitrate is no more than 50 ppm, you should add the detritivore kit. Your tank may be ready in another 7-10 days.

Good luck!

[Holly]

My ammonia and nitrites are zero, and my nitrates have been at 20 for the past day-and-a-half. I asked inland aquatics to mail my kit next Monday (for arrival on Tuesday) unless I called to postpone it again.