[smidoid]

It's Star Trek parody, not a good one but here's the question...

I have this skimmer. Well it would be if it actually SKIMMED something once in a while.

I've tried tuning it, running with it off, on... and everything in between but still it produces less a teaspoon of skimmate in perhaps 2-3 days.

Now there's fish in that tank, not many to be sure, but were are all the DOCs going???

[wozza]

good to see ya back marc
what skimmer is it?

[smidoid]

Ty Wozza, been a bit hectic at my end.

I'l have to hang my head in shame and admit it's a Seaclown since you ask. I read somewhere there were ways to improve it (short of replacing it) but I can't seem to find it now. It does produce a healthy flow of bubbles, but they seem to dissapate at the top of the reaction chamber if that helps any.

[wozza]

here is a mod i just found that may work depend if you wanna run a air pump tho.


I've been "experimenting" with my Sea Clown for awhile now, trying to improve it's performance, which has been minimal to say the least...

And yes I've noticed that it does perfom better if there/after there is a slight build up of film on the inside of the tube in the collection cup. And a decrease if the "film" builds up into too heavy a scum layer...

Yes, the "air adjustment valve " is too finicky...

Yes, Changing water levels changes the pressure of water entering the pump necessatating constant readjustment...

There are a couple of modifications from another DIY board that have "helped" a little...

1.Changing the air adjustment valve to one with a "finer" thread on the screw to allow a more "precise" adjustment...

2.Cutting down (shortning) the riser tube in the collection cup to allow the foam to "roll over" into the cup without having to rise so far...(seems to get stuck and block the tube)

3.Cutting down (shortning) the innermost tube where the cyclone effect starts...Allows more contact time between water and air...

4.Sealing the collection cup to the inner chamber forcing all the air that does enter the chamber to push the foam out the tube in the collection cup...

These mods have helped the performance, but only slightly...
Some may think the increase on such a minimal skimmer is not worth the time and effort...and I would agree, but, I've taken it as a personal challange to "tweak" out every bit of performance it's capable of...

My inital question was "Is there a basic design flaw in unit itself that prevents normal protien fractionalzation?" (Is it a peice of junk?)

The weak spot seems to be the air/water mix ratio ie:constant adjustment needed. Too weak to push foam through tube.

While running the skimmer in its "normal" mode with the best mix I could get, I added an air stone through the top of the collection cup down through the inner tube and into the innermost tube placing the stone at the bottom where the water enters the skimmer...

The increased air VOLUME immediatly produced a much larger quantity of sticky /dry foam rising through the upper tube and into the collection cup!!

I ran the skimmer for a week this way and it produced cup after cup of thick brown skimmate (the kind a skimmer should)...

So my initial conclusion is that the unit itself IS CAPABLE of good to excellent production of skimmate on a consistant basis...

However I don't like the "Rube Goldberg" approach or the noise of running an additional air pump...

So I am now working on "modifying" the pump/air eductor to increase air volume without sacrificing water volume...(the root cause of the finicky adjustment as built)

If/When I come up with something cheap,easy,and effective I'll post it for all that are "struggling" with there Sea Clones now.

[Poseidon]

More AIR!!!! Like James said, you can add an airstone and increase production. You might also try a Venturi adapter for the MaxiJet that hooks an airline up BEFORE the impellar, that will create smaller bubbles, and more of them!

[smidoid]

Rube Goldberg! Wozza you sod, you made me look that up! It was worth the effort, but aren't we "Heath Robinson" in the UK? :-)

What this beggar basically needs is a more powerful pimp (sic.) driving the whole contraption.

Mike, you kinda lost me in the detail there, but I get the gist, I think . Are you suggesting that I feed air/water bubble mix to the impeller? I'm beginning to think from what you're both saying is that the basic reactor vessel is OK, but the ability of the pump to drive it is woefully inadequate.

[Poseidon]

Add this:

Maxijet Turbo Venturi Kit: Premium Aquatics

and a cheap airpump, and you are in business!

[smidoid]

NO WAY it could be that simple Mike!

Really though, is that a variation on venturi it already has? It looks the same (OK looks are only skin deep). I tried pumping air in and it has the effect of overwhelming the rather pathetic little pump it has. I expect a larger pump might help too. Your thoughts appreciated as ever.

(p.s. remember the Lunar eclipse we had a few weeks back? - Guess who forgot to turn the Image Stab. to OFF when mounting on a tripod... D'oh!)

[Poseidon]

Does the venturi it has now, come before or after the impellar? I can't tell from the pic I found online.

If you force more air in, you will increase production. It really is that simple.

Fine air bubbles + contact time = Stinky nasty skimmate!

How did your pictures come out Marc? Here is one of mine from about 4-5 years ago...
Doh! Found the thread, but not the picture that was attached... I don't think I still have it here either...

Lunar Eclipse

[wozza]

Rube Goldberg! Wozza you sod, you made me look that up! It was worth the effort, but aren't we "Heath Robinson" in the UK? :-)

what the duce!!! sorry marc i have absolutly no idea what you mean.

[smidoid]

Originally Posted by Poseidon

Does the venturi it has now, come before or after the impellar? I can't tell from the pic I found online.

If you force more air in, you will increase production. It really is that simple.

Fine air bubbles + contact time = Stinky nasty skimmate!

Forcing more air in seems to overload the impeller and the thing stalls. I tried this ages ago by blowing into the tube... same effect with a pump. The pump just doesn't seem to have the metal.

My Venturi is before the impellar - the idea of the design is that the impellar smashes the bubbles from the venturi. Nice in principal, but crap in practice with this weedy pump. My LFS says that's the biggest pump they make too. Wozza's idea is good - if I had only thought to get an airstone! Having a bad day: the new T5 didn't fit either.

[smidoid]

Wozza: A Heath Robinson is the same as a Rube Goldberg: only so far as I can tell, Heath was a REAL person! Rube Goldberg is an Americanism. Like "Fanny" and "Bum" mean the same thing on respective sides of the atlantic.

W. Heath Robinson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Had some fun with my missus today- - I sent her to the LFS for a "bearded clam." She came back with a clam at least.

Mike: those shorts of the moon were a disaster. Too shaky to be useful. Piy because it was a lovely night here too. The IS system was probably hunting and making things worse.

[wozza]

oh ok so you say "thats a bit of a Heath Robinson" refering to a shoddy what ever?

kinda like cockny rhyming slang with out the rhyme

[smidoid]

Actually Heath Robison can be just overly complicated or amateurish. Like my sump and drainage system, for instance. ;-)

The beggar overflows every time the pump cuts out because I didn't design in enough headroom.

[wozza]

Then that would make my sump and drainage system Heath Robison also, my pump hasnt cut out as of yet, but i have turned it off and it would def flood if it did.....just dont tell my dad that

[smidoid]

I'm on my fifth flood! Three down to the power company screwing up, the last two down to water getting into the lighting hood. OOOOOOOO.

We moved the tank into the hall since the front room now has some expensive flooring in it - and it's more than my life's worth to flood that.

Good skimmer article, by Scott Z I thought. Now back to those mods.

[smidoid]

Wozza! Result mate. Putting even a fairly weedy fizzer into the reaction chamber has increased output perhaps 1000% or more. Early days, but the difference is noticable within less than 12 hours. Now I need to find a a decent (wood?) fizzer to improve things even more.

[wozza]

awsome bet everthing will start to look better in your tank as a result too.

yeah i think the wood ones a ment to produce the smallist bubbles, but they need cleaning/replaceing quite often, or at least thats what ive read.

maybe you could post a thread in the DIY section on what you did with a few pics, i bet it would help out other ppl with the same skimmer/problem
cheers james

[smidoid]

I'm stil experimenting. I will try wood next. I tried a larger "stone" but it just produced larger bubbles and less of them. Also, have to be careful to check as one two occasions it's actually overfilled the cup and on another the three-year-old little beggar pulled it all to bits! Either way, it's a tremendous improvement. One of my hermits is now a lot more active - that may be coincidence, or it may not be... time will tell. I'll keep us posted.

[smidoid]

Oh darn. Just found this... and it makes rather good sense (and a good reason why the Seaclone doesn't work that well. The full article is here:

Skimmer Design 101

The second requirement, that of minimizing turbulence of the air bubbles inside the skimmer, is also crutial. The reason for this is because of the different types of dissolved organics in the water column. Different organics are attracted to the surface of the air bubbles to a different degree depending upon the molecular composition of the dissolved compound. Some compounds are highly attracted to the air bubble. Others are only weakly attracted. If the air/water is turbulent inside the skimmer, the strongly attracted compounds will stay attached to the air bubble but the weakly attracted compounds will not and they will not be skimmed out of the water column. By minimizing the turbulence inside the skimmer, both the strongly and weakly attracted compounds stay attached to the air bubble and are skimmed out of the water column. What you want to see is a nice blooming flow of air bubbles upward in the water column. If you see excessive turbulence inside of the skimmer then the skimmer is not tuned properly.