[Frodo]

So i have been thinking about my next tank, well i already have a 75 that is drilled with one overflow but it is not what i want. I would much rather a center over flow like pictured below. I would like anything from a 60 to a 90 pretty much i dont want to go over 4 feet wide and 2 feet deep. Now i know acrlyic is better looking well to me and lighter then glass plus the added ability to buff our small scratches. But what else is the benifeit of having an acrlyic tank. Thanks for all the suggestions and opinions guys and ladies.

[Ninong]

Acrylic has one major drawback: It scratches easily; glass does not.

Acrylic is clearer than regular glass but not any better than Starphire glass. In fact, there is less distortion looking through Starphire glass at an angle than there is looking through acrylic at an angle.

Acrylic is much lighter than glass.

Acrylic is much less likely to leak as it ages compared to glass. This doesn't mean that glass tanks can't last a very long time, only that acrylic tanks are less likely to fail compared to glass.

Acrylic tanks are much better insulators than glass. This is either a plus or a minus depending on your situation.

Acrylic tanks are more likely to be damaged by heat from metal halide lamps that are placed too close to the top bracing than glass. Obviously you can crack a glass cross brace if you place a 400w metal halide lamp too close to it but you can do it a lot quicker and a lot easier with acrylic.

Acrylic tanks are much more likely to bow out than glass tanks, especially if the manufacturer skimped on the thickness of the acrylic.

Acrylic tanks have smaller open space at the top of the tank because of the expansive top bracing. Some glass tanks are now being built that are completely trimless. Acrylic tanks are much, much more difficult to clean than glass tanks.

Acrylic tanks must be supported completely underneath their bottoms. Just something to remember. It's not a problem as long as you don't try to use a typical stand that was built for a glass tank.

Acrylic tanks can easily be ruined if someone unwittingly uses something like Windex to clear the surface. It will cause hazing.

Acrylic tanks are much less likely to explode in an earthquake compared to glass tanks but you don't live in California, so that's probably not a problem. In an earthquake, the live rock can sometimes go flying across the tank. An acrylic tank is less likely to crack.

If it weren't for the problem with scratches, acrylic wouldn't be all that bad. Many people have acrylic tanks. Many people who have had acrylic tanks say that they will never own another one. It all depends on how willing you are to deal with the scratching issue.

[Frodo]

Acrylic tanks are more likely to be damaged by heat from metal halide lamps that are placed too close to the top bracing than glass. Obviously you can crack a glass cross brace if you place a 400w metal halide lamp too close to it but you can do it a lot quicker and a lot easier with acrylic.

Well that doesnt sound to good considering i plan to run MH....

Acrylic tanks have smaller open space at the top of the tank because of the expansive top bracing. Some glass tanks are now being built that are completely trimless. Acrylic tanks are much, much more difficult to clean than glass tanks.

I have seen these online before I know the obvious beniefit but is there any draw backs? I think they look alot better then the ones with the black/brown trim around the top.

[Ninong]

You can run metal halides over acrylic tanks, you just have to be careful not to place a metal halide lamp too close to the acrylic. This won't be a problem if you place each lamp over an open space in the top of the tank. The problems arise when people try to run a metal halide lamp directly over an acrylic brace without leaving enough space between the lamp and the acrylic. This results in uneven heating of the acrylic brace, causing it to crack. You can obtain the same disastrous results with metal halides over glass braces provided you are really careless.

In two typical disaster thread that I remember reading on another board several years back, one hobbyist managed to crack the center brace on a brand new large Oceanic tank by placing a 400w metal halide lamp only 4" above the glass brace. The tank failed after only two or three days. In another very well known case, a hobbyist managed to completely destroy a very, very large acrylic tank by placing 400w metal halide lamps too close to the acrylic bracing. He was relying on ventilation fans to keep the acrylic surface from overheating. This worked fine for a number of days/weeks. Murphy's Law caught up with him when the fans failed to come on one day while he was away. The tank failed completely.

There is a company in Texas that is getting a lot of coverage on another board right now thanks to two ongoing threads by new tank owners. One thread is of a 180-gal tank and the other is of a 300-gal tank. Both tanks are trimless at the top. Both are made with 19mm (3/4") thick Starphire glass and PVC bottoms. Both tanks are very impressive. The drawback to such a tank is that you have to use thicker glass than would otherwise be required if you were willing to have a 4" euro-braced top. That increases the cost a lot. Another drawback is that you are limited in just how tall you can make such a tank. The largest that I have heard of so far with that design is 84"L x 42"W x 25"H (382 gallons). That's still a very large tank to have no top bracing of any kind, not even any trim of any kind at the top. That one is still under construction the last time I heard.

Assuming money is not the main consideration, then one of those trimless Starphire tanks would seem like something worth considering but they will be much, much more expensive than the same size tank in either acrylic or regular glass.

P.S. -- Personally, I would never own a glass tank unless it was Starphire. Once you own a Starphire tank, you will NEVER even consider regular glass. I might consider an acrylic tank if I still lived in San Francisco but that would be a close call because I really don't care for acrylic all that much.

[Frodo]

Is is possible to just get the front panel in Starphire and maybe the sides?

[Ninong]

Originally Posted by Frodo

Is is possible to just get the front panel in Starphire and maybe the sides?

Sure. You can use Starphire for some panes and regular glass for others. Obviously all panes that are viewable should be Starphire.

Starphire glass is about 40% more expensive than regular glass but the labor is the same no matter what glass you choose. And then there's the profit markup.

Assuming you get Starphire for the front pane, there would be only a tiny, tiny savings to be realized by choosing regular glass for the two end panes rather than Starphire.

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Sure. You can use Starphire for some panes and regular glass for others. Obviously all panes that are viewable should be Starphire.

Starphire glass is about 40% more expensive than regular glass but the labor is the same no matter what glass you choose. And then there's the profit markup.

Assuming you get Starphire for the front pane, there would be only a tiny, tiny savings to be realized by choosing regular glass for the two end panes rather than Starphire.

Cool cool we have a local company that makes them a few cites away i will have to run over there and ask them, any other benefits besides just the viewing?

[Frodo]

Anyone?

[ccorral]

glass only!

[golfish]

I've done both...I'd never do another acrylic main tank. Their great for sumps and everything else, just not good for SHOW.

Starphire is a brand name low iron glass..IMO, its better\clearer then any other low iron glass that I've seen..If you want Starphire make sure you get it..Most tank builders that claim to use Starphire glass DON'T use it at all. They use a cheaper glass...don't be fooled

[Firefish]

I've never owned an acrylic tank but, the local mom & pop tropical fish store has a huge 300+ gallon acrylic display and is so badly scratched and hazy you can barely see some of the frags in it.

Also, a couple reasons why I won't buy acrylic... I'm constantly dragging my cleaning magnet through the sand bed trying to clean the bottom glass. I always get sand wedged up into the velcro cleaning surface on the back of the magnet, dragging it across the glass. If I did this in an acrylic tank it would show nasty scratches... I know you can polish fine scratches from acrylic but, with scratches on the inside...who wants to drain their tank every couple of years to polish it I'm all set with that!

Glass is much easier to clean & care for imho.

[SKRIZ]

Like everyone said, Glass is difficult to scratch unlike acylic. The last thing you want to do is spend time buffing your tank when you can be enjoying it.

I would NEVER own an acrylic tank.

But, be careful who you order your tank from. There is a vendor who I would definately not use no matter what. don't want to start a flame, so pm me if you are getting ready to order.

[Frodo]

I am sure i will stick with the Glass and try and get some Starphire panels so no worries on the acrylic

[jsheffel]

Originally Posted by Ninong

Sure. You can use Starphire for some panes and regular glass for others. Obviously all panes that are viewable should be Starphire.

Starphire glass is about 40% more expensive than regular glass but the labor is the same no matter what glass you choose. And then there's the profit markup.

Assuming you get Starphire for the front pane, there would be only a tiny, tiny savings to be realized by choosing regular glass for the two end panes rather than Starphire.

I am being quoted $2000+ for a 180 with Starphire on the front and sides by my LFS (vs $500 for regular glass). That is much more than a 40% difference. I have tried several Google searches, but have only been able to find one company that even listed them as something they make (Aquariam Obssessed and theirs was an odd size 60x30x24 and only came as a package for $5999). Can you point me in the direction of a company where I could order a 72x24x24, reef ready, euro braced for a reasonable price?

[Ninong]

I have never heard of a 180-gal glass aquarium selling for $500 new. What brand is that and what is the thickness of the glass?

I purchased my 120-gal Starphire tank from a builder in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. It cost me $550 plus about $300 shipping. That was about six years ago. That same builder sold some nice 227-gal Starphire tanks (72x27x27) to several people I know for around $1100 plus shipping. I have no idea what his current price would be but I suspect that it might be around $1400-$1500 plus shipping for a 227-gal tank with three sides 12mm Starphire glass. This particular builder would charge about the same price for either a 227-gal or a 180-gal. It has to do with the number of cuts he has to make based on the size of the lites the glass comes in. And he's willing to build a 227-gal tank with euro bracing and no cross braces, which I think is nicer.

Some people have complained about delays in shipping and other problems with that particular builder. I had no problems and many others had no problems but some people have reported problems. I think it's always better to buy an aquarium from a source close to home, if possible.

I'm not familiar with the various tank manufacturers in Florida but I'm sure there must be some down there. LeeMar in Vista, California makes Starphire tanks. Their prices are higher than ordering from the guy in Calgary and they may not be interested in shipping to Florida. The company I ordered from is now called Bow Valley Aquarium. They don't really have a website. Here is their contact info. Ask for Mitch.

There are some new guys in Texas building some very nice Starphire tanks lately. I believe they can be reached through Aquarium Environments. I'm sure their tanks are not the cheapest. I don't know if they would be willing to ship to Florida.

I know that Oceanic also offers Starphire glass now. Their tanks have to be ordered through your local LFS, assuming they are an Oceanic outlet. I have no idea what their current prices are for either regular glass or Starphire.

P.S. -- Aquarium Obsessed is in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

[SKRIZ]

Aquarium Obsessed will make a custom sized tank for you. He is more expensive than mitch, but well worth the extra. Since he's already been named, Bow Valley is where I ordered. Customer service sucks and the end product was poor and not as discussed. You will have to go over every single fine detail with them and get it in writing. Expect delays. if they tell you 2 months, it will be 4 (mine was longer!) I think if you draw everything out and go over every detail (even common sense stuff that you would assume any normal human being would do) and you don't mind the wait, you can get a good tank from mitch.

[Bianca]

Originally Posted by Ninong

You can run metal halides over acrylic tanks, you just have to be careful not to place a metal halide lamp too close to the acrylic. This won't be a problem if you place each lamp over an open space in the top of the tank. The problems arise when people try to run a metal halide lamp directly over an acrylic brace without leaving enough space between the lamp and the acrylic. This results in uneven heating of the acrylic brace, causing it to crack. You can obtain the same disastrous results with metal halides over glass braces provided you are really careless.

In two typical disaster thread that I remember reading on another board several years back, one hobbyist managed to crack the center brace on a brand new large Oceanic tank by placing a 400w metal halide lamp only 4" above the glass brace. The tank failed after only two or three days. In another very well known case, a hobbyist managed to completely destroy a very, very large acrylic tank by placing 400w metal halide lamps too close to the acrylic bracing. He was relying on ventilation fans to keep the acrylic surface from overheating. This worked fine for a number of days/weeks. Murphy's Law caught up with him when the fans failed to come on one day while he was away. The tank failed completely.

There is a company in Texas that is getting a lot of coverage on another board right now thanks to two ongoing threads by new tank owners. One thread is of a 180-gal tank and the other is of a 300-gal tank. Both tanks are trimless at the top. Both are made with 19mm (3/4") thick Starphire glass and PVC bottoms. Both tanks are very impressive. The drawback to such a tank is that you have to use thicker glass than would otherwise be required if you were willing to have a 4" euro-braced top. That increases the cost a lot. Another drawback is that you are limited in just how tall you can make such a tank. The largest that I have heard of so far with that design is 84"L x 42"W x 25"H (382 gallons). That's still a very large tank to have no top bracing of any kind, not even any trim of any kind at the top. That one is still under construction the last time I heard.

Assuming money is not the main consideration, then one of those trimless Starphire tanks would seem like something worth considering but they will be much, much more expensive than the same size tank in either acrylic or regular glass.

P.S. -- Personally, I would never own a glass tank unless it was Starphire. Once you own a Starphire tank, you will NEVER even consider regular glass. I might consider an acrylic tank if I still lived in San Francisco but that would be a close call because I really don't care for acrylic all that much.

Is that the same as polybicarbonate "glass" ?

I just looked it up wow looks nice never heard of it and I researched glass vs acrylic few yrs back this type glass never showed up. I have never seen a tank with it looks great though good to know .
Thanks

[Bianca]

Originally Posted by Firefish

I've never owned an acrylic tank but, the local mom & pop tropical fish store has a huge 300+ gallon acrylic display and is so badly scratched and hazy you can barely see some of the frags in it.

Also, a couple reasons why I won't buy acrylic... I'm constantly dragging my cleaning magnet through the sand bed trying to clean the bottom glass. I always get sand wedged up into the velcro cleaning surface on the back of the magnet, dragging it across the glass. If I did this in an acrylic tank it would show nasty scratches... I know you can polish fine scratches from acrylic but, with scratches on the inside...who wants to drain their tank every couple of years to polish it I'm all set with that!

Glass is much easier to clean & care for imho.

I agree I had a 12 gallon nano cube tank well made but it will scratch regardless of how carefull you are. I think if you sneeze in general direction it will scratch.
I never used any cleaning magnets etc just an acrylic type cleaning mitt and than you go slow and soft even with that it scratched ever so slightly but right in the middle.
I gave it away as its impossible to keep and I set up a 55 regular glass instead
. Acrylic does look great holds in heat great and stays cooler easier in warm temp with a few ice cubes but it will scratch .
I cant fathom it not scratching its built to scratch .

[The R/C Man]

Hey All!
I didn't read the whole thread, but I would like to add a couple things. Acrylic can be drilled much easier than glass. So for you DIY people this is really a nice plus. Although acrylic does scratch easier than glass it can be polished back to its original luster. Glass on the other hand, once it's scratched it is staying that way. Personally I see both sides of the story and like both for different reasons. My 375 gallon tank is built from 3/4" acrylic all the way around. One reason I went with acrylic was for it's weight. Working for "Uncle Sam" means I may have to move and a glass tank wouldn't be practical. Also having the opportunity to work with acrylic on a regular basis building sumps, protein skimmers etc allowed me access to the proper equipment to build it myself. It also allowed me to obtain the acrylic at a really good price. For smaller tanks, say 220 and under, glass tanks using a starfire viewing panel would be great. Larger than that one must really consider how the tank will be moved into its location etc. Also the design must be well thought out before the tank purchase so it can be drilled during the assy process. In all honesty this is my first acrylic tank. Over the many years of keeping aquariums they have always been glass and fairly small. I do believe that with care in cleaning an acrylic tank can be maintained to have a fairly scratch free viewing panel......

[SKRIZ]

Originally Posted by The R/C Man

... an acrylic tank can be maintained to have a fairly scratch free viewing panel......

this may sum it up the best. "fairly scratch free" at the cost of being able to drill it easily vs. scratch free* at the cost of not being able to modify it.

*glass can be scratched.

* I had extra holes drilled in the tank for future stuff. They are currently capped off and not used. If I ever decide I want to add something (closed loop), it can esily be done.