Returns and the siphon break

[kgeorge]

Hey guys... new to this website... I'm a friend of Samper's and i've talked to him a little bit about this and I want to see if anyone has been able to master this problem or I guess you could say "idea" I have to deal with. I would like my return from the sump to go into the bottom of the backside glass that way I can make the ring that some people make around the top, in the bottom and hide the jets with rocks and such. the problem is the no electric siphon problem. Are there any methods out there to fix this. I was toying around with putting a "T" outside the bulkhead and running a pipe up to maybe the top of the tank and putting a check valve on it that is backwards. So when the water is running it pushes the check valve closed and when the electric goes off... It opens and lets air in.... Would that even work????? Another instead of the check valve is the vent for a toilet pipe. It doesn't let air (stink)lol out in the house and is shut but will let air come in the pipe to breath. It is less restrictive than the check valve and I blew in one as hard as I could and it held strong.... Anyway... those are an idea I have.... Help me out guys, tell me if there's a way to easily do this....

[DonW]

Other than a couple of check valves I cant think of another way to get this done. Mine will be plumbed in the manor and will use two check valves. I'm using a 12vdc pump so when the power goes out the tank will continue to flow. This should be a pretty good backup for the check valves. And finally I have a drain that will just go to the sewer if all else fails. Granted this is a shallow lagoon look down. I dont think I would try it with a regular tank full of sps.

Don

[Samper]

Hey Kyle...glad you made it over! Guys Kyle is designing a super nice 75 gallon display at the moment and will have two 20 gallon gravity fed refugiums. You should also see his skimmer that he built. It's pretty amazing for DIY.

Kyle, I really can't think of another way to do this either without the check valves. If you were drilling towards the top or even going over the top and dropping down into the tank that would be easy. The check valves that were recommended to me by Reefland can be found here.
True Union Swing Check Valve - 1/2 inch Slip x 1/2 inch Slip (Saltwater Aquarium Supplies > Plumbing Parts > Valves > True Union Swing Check )

[DonW]

Also order your valves before you do a bunch of plumbing. They are bulky and bigger than they look in the pictures.

[kgeorge]

Well I put my sump to the test tonight with my pump. I blew water everywhere in the kitchen. The mag 36 is a horse. I had a 1 1/2 hose aimed at the bottom and it blew water over all the sides of the sump. Anyway I'm gonna have to lower the height of my baffles, the water is a little too high. Back to the original thread, I may just go up over the top and drop down into the bottom with the water this pump pushes. (Would that cancel any head loss?) Just a thought there. I really wanted to hide everything... either way now I will hide it with the foam background so I guess it's all good. Anyone have any good ideas for me to do?

[salt-rookie]

I use a U-Tube to return water back to my tank, and I have drilled a hole just below the water surface to break the siphon when the power is interrupted.

[Samper]

Kyle.. ..I've had a pump seize up due to Ca buildup before and went to clean it. I forgot to unplug it. I closed the ball valve, disconnected it and went to pull the pump from the sump. It bumped a piece of LR and started back up completely soaking me and my floor. You will still see head loss going up and over the back especially with the 90 elbows you will have to use but that's ok. That mag 36 should be plenty strong enough. One thing you might want to think about are flow patterns. You want to try and cover as much area with the outlets as possible. Also if they empty out too close to the sandbed or are blasting against a rock close to the sandbed it will blow sand everywhere and continue to do so until it's clear of that spot. Another thing to consider is that all of the outlets need to be even because the lower ones will get less flow than the ones closer to the pump. Know what I mean? I figured you would take the middle two and position them behind the live rock. You can either have them blow out and at each other or towards the two ends of the aquarium. Depending on how you aquascape the other two can empty to the right and left of the reef structure and be aimed towards the middle. When they hit in the middle they will billow in every direction and with the addition of what's coming out from behind the live rock should make for a great flow pattern.

[kgeorge]

So you say 4 outlets? Right? And do this from above the tank or drop down into it and put all the pipe under the sand and shoot out form there? Another thing... That pump is super loud ( What can I do to not drown out the tv? lol) and was also putting out a lot of air at wide open. I was dripping a little on the pipe... Was it suckin air there? The reason for it? because it didn't do it at lower speed... that's what I figured anyway.

[Samper]

I wouldn't go all the way down to the sand...I'd position the outlets about half way down. This keeps the sand from blowing all over and moves the surface at the same time.

To quiet the pump you can sit it on a mouse pad or something along those lines to reduce vibration.

If it was blowing air it is either sucking it in via the intake or through the plumbing. I have my pumps intake pulling from the very bottom, backside of the fuge as far away from the baffles as possible. You may have to throttle it back a little if your overflows aren't keeping up.

[kgeorge]

Ok, only about a month of thinking about how I want to do this and maybe then i'll go ahead with it. Lol. Back to the internet to look at pics to see what others have done to get some ideas.

[Reefland]

Hi Kyle,

I would also go with the check valves mentioned above.

Also I am curious what kind of overflows your using in the 75 to handle the output of a Mag 36. :eek3:

[kgeorge]

Well, I actually made my own overflows out of acrylic. I put them in the oven and then pulled them out when they were good and flexible. I shaped them in a quarter circle. I also have 2'' bulkheads in each to drain the water... lol I just hope it works. I'll just blame it on Samper if it doesn't!!!!! He's been my mentor through most of this!

[Reefland]

I have found with the standard AGA corner overflows that the bottleneck isn't the 1" drain, it is the overflow itself.

[Samper]

Kyle, it's best to have more drain ability than the pump can pump out. I've been looking at bulkheads to see how much they can handle but am at school and these computers are running so slow it's ridiculous. Hopefully someone can post these specs. You are going to be a running ball valve after the pump and will have two of them to regulate the refugium flow rates. You have plenty of control over the pump should the overflows not be able to keep up. I hate to throttle a pump back but it may be necessary depending on what info the others come up with. You could always drill another hole in each overflow if needed so that you can run wide open. Since you aren't having a refugium in the 50 gallon sump you can really crank it up but you will have to be able to drain it at the same time. Post up some pics of the overflows you made and give everyone some insight as to how you did it.

[kgeorge]

The first is how I bent them and the second pic is how they came out.

[Samper]

Have you measured how much space you will have inside of them once they are glued in? The reason I ask is that I'd like to have you install some durso or stockman standpipes like I use to quiet them down.

[kgeorge]

Here's my skimmer while i'm at it....

[Samper]

Now that is quality DIY!

[kgeorge]

Thanks Samper. There have been a few changes to the protein skimmer, this pic was before it was tested.

[jsheffel]

Dude, you have mad skills! What was the total cost when finished? Where did you get the sextagon chambers? Does anything introduce a swirl in the lower chamber to increase contact time with the bubbles?