Red Sea 130D - carbon question

[paulkva]

I am new to marine aquariums. Starting out with a Red Sea 130D. The integrated equipment is a nice feature for my apartment. I am puzzled with the design for carbon placement now that I have a few months of working with the tank. The way the manufacturer suggests configuration places the carbon between the ceramic biological media and the 2 return pumps. So far, so good. Problem is that changing the carbon requires removing the pumps. This requires unscrewing the nozzles inside the tank. Not that big an issue, but seems there must be a better way? Anybody have this system? Is there a better way that does not require additional equipment outside the existing footprint?
I am really enjoying the practical education that I am gaining through the forums and member advice.
Thanks!
Paul

[Ninong]

Hi Paul,




I suggest you contact Red Sea directly with that question. I couldn't find anything on their site other than the graphic illustration. Did it come with an owner's manual?

[paulkva]

Ninong,

Thanks for your reply. I will get in touch with Red Sea as you suggest. The manual for the tank includes the diagrams. The position of the carbon requires pump removal for changes.

Thanks again,
Paul

[scooterman]

That chamber is one huge detritus trap, I removed everything from that section & just use a sock & put carbon in where the overflow is at.

[Ninong]

That chamber is one huge detritus trap, I removed everything from that section & just use a sock & put carbon in where the overflow is at.

That's an interesting observation. I was about to post that he could certainly do without the "Highly porous ceramic biological filter media" but I didn't want to suggest that this soon to someone just setting up the tank. There is really no need for additional biological filtration if the aquarium contains decent live rock. A nice sand bed would also provide additional filtration. If one purchases the Red Sea "starter kit" for either the MAX 130D or the MAX 250, I think it would be a good idea to double the amount of "reef base" (sand) so that you end up with a deeper sand bed.

I'm not trying to knock Red Sea in any way because I think their MAX 130D and MAX 250 are both beautiful products with many great features. Ceramic biological filter media is popular in Europe and this Israeli product is selling extremely well over there. Live rock is extremely expensive in most European countries, which is why artificial "live" rock is so popular.

I agree that running carbon, either 24/7 or just a couple of days per month, is a very good idea.

[paulkva]

Scooterman and Ninong,

Your advice and observations are truly appreciated.

The tank holds about 34 gallons. I have about 35 lb of live rock. The sand bed is shallow (less than 2"). I believe the aragonite sand is in the 1-2mm range. It makes sense that the rock and substrate should make the ceramics unnecessary. I like the idea of using some form of sock. I assume this is for particulates and to hold the carbon... Forgive me, but can I get some more information on what the sock actually is and where it can be acquired. I assume the sock would also replace the coarse sponge filter that came with the kit? I am not in a position to make radical changes to live rock or substrate as me and the kids have already started to add inhabitants (fire shrimp, 10 magarites, 10 nassarius, olive cowrie, serpent star, 2 clowns, firefish, yellow watchman goby, frag of sea mat, frag of mushroom, frag of Ricordea florida, and green star polyp). Lights are the stock 10k T5 and are on 11 hours (open to advice on how long they should be on). Gradual changes would be okay to SB if you think I could pull it off without having to start over.

Thanks again,
Paul

[Ninong]

The tank holds about 34 gallons. I have about 35 lb of live rock.

Excellent.

The sand bed is shallow (less than 2"). I believe the aragonite sand is in the 1-2mm range.

I think the average particle size may actually be a little smaller than that but either way will work, especially for your purposes.

I like the idea of using some form of sock. I assume this is for particulates and to hold the carbon... Forgive me, but can I get some more information on what the sock actually is and where it can be acquired.

It's a mesh filter bag that is used to hold media, such as GAC (granular activated carbon) or other media. They come is various sizes, such as these that are sold by Marine Depot. Any LFS should have some in stock. Apparently the MAX 130D came with GAC and the ceramic media in some sort of mesh container already based on their graphic:

Anything that is sufficiently porous for the water to freely flow through without being large enough that the carbon gets out.

I assume the sock would also replace the coarse sponge filter that came with the kit?

No, it's not intended as a mechanical filter, just a chemical filter that holds activated carbon. It should not accumulate detritus but it would be a good idea to check it every couple of weeks. The carbon should probably be replaced monthly, assuming you choose to run it 24/7.

I would leave the coarse sponge filter in place.

I am not in a position to make radical changes to live rock or substrate as me and the kids have already started to add inhabitants (fire shrimp, 10 magarites, 10 nassarius, olive cowrie, serpent star, 2 clowns, firefish, yellow watchman goby, frag of sea mat, frag of mushroom, frag of Ricordea florida, and green star polyp).

Actually you can make changes to the sand bed without too much difficulty and with no harm to any of your present inhabitants as long as you don't bury any of them on the sand bed.

If you do decide to increase the depth of the sand bed, you might be better off choosing the identical Red Sea product or something similar rather than one of the really fine particle size products. This is especially true when adding sediments to an already established aquarium. I'm talking about using an identical product to what you already have. If you try to add really fine particle stuff, the larger stuff that is underneath will eventually rise to the top anyway. That's why you should never add aragonite sand on top of crushed coral. Crushed coral should always be removed and discarded first, which is a very big hassle.

Here's how you do it. Find (or cut) a piece of 1.5" or 2" PVC pipe so that is just a few inches taller than your present water column. Turn off your pumps. Hold the PVC pipe section in the aquarium so that it is just barely above the surface of the sand bed. Now slowly pour the new sand into the water inside the PVC pipe and allow it to slowly pour out the bottom as you gradually move the pipe along the surface of the sand bed. You might want to rinse the new sand first to get rid of the silt. Normally you wouldn't have to do this but in this situation it's probably a good idea.

You should not add more than about 1/2" of new sand bed at a time. Wait at least a week between additions. You should bring the depth up to at least 2.5" or even 3". That would be a lot better for filtration purposes than something that is less than 2".

Obviously you would have to relocate anything that is presently on the sand bed's surface first. You will get a certain amount of cloudiness when you do this but nothing that will harm any of your tank's inhabitants. Leave the pumps off until about 30 minutes after you have finished adding sand to allow some of the cloudiness to settle first. All of the cloudiness should be gone within a few hours after turning on the pumps again.

You don't have to double your present sand bed but any addition at all would be a benefit.

Lights are the stock 10k T5 and are on 11 hours (open to advice on how long they should be on).

Those are specially designed T5 power compacts that are supposed to be better than regular PCs. They're actually 50/50 (half 10,000K and half actinic) according to Red Sea: 2x 55w 50/50 10,000k & Actinic T5 Power compact lamps.

I would run the lights 12 hours per day instead of 11. That would be a more natural photoperiod.

Gradual changes would be okay to SB if you think I could pull it off without having to start over.

Yes, you could definitely do it provided you do it gradually.

[paulkva]

Ninong,

Wow, I appreciate the mentoring and advice.

I now understand the concept of the sock as the permeable bag to hold the media. I thought there was something else involved. I will be running the carbon 24/7. I guess I will remove the ceramic material. Interestingly, that still brings me back to my original question about carbon placement and needing to remove the pumps. I guess I can live with that for a while longer. I have not contacted Red Sea yet. I will do that soon.

I will gradually bring up the depth/volume of substrate. I do not have a Red Sea substrate. I believe it is Caribsea Arag-Alive Special Grade Reef Sand.

Thanks also for advice on the photoperiod. That too makes sense.

Thanks,
Paul

[Ninong]

I have not contacted Red Sea yet. I will do that soon.

Just ask them if there's something you're missing here. It seems rather awkward to have to remove the pumps every time you need to change the carbon. I'm curious to hear what they say in response.

I will gradually bring up the depth/volume of substrate. I do not have a Red Sea substrate. I believe it is Caribsea Arag-Alive Special Grade Reef Sand.

Well I guess that explains that. I figured you had the Red Sea substrate that they include with their starter kit. The Carib-Sea product you have is indeed 1-2mm and, according to Carib-Sea, not recommended for deep sand beds. However, I do know of someone with a 718-gal reef tank who used this product (the dry version) to create a 3" DSB.

Most people use a finer particle aragonite sand for deep (>3") sand beds -- something like Carib-Sea's Aragamax Sugar Sized Sand (0.1-1.0mm) with maybe 15% of something like their Aragamax Select (0.5-1.5mm) blended in. BTW, all of the bacteria that are in the moist "alive" product would have colonized the dry product within the first few days in the tank anyway. That's because they're everywhere, including the air we breathe. You don't really have to pay for them. The so-called "alive" product speeds up the cycling process by maybe three or four days at most.

I don't think I would bother adding any of their sugar sized sand on top of the large stuff you already have in there but you might want to try some Aragamax Select (0.5-1.5mm). Unfortunately, it's only available in 30-lb bags in the dry aragonite and not offered at all in the "alive" stuff. Looks like all of their "alive" products are offered in 10-lb and 20-lb bags. You might consider either Fiji Pink "alive" (0.5-1.5mm) or Bahamas Oolite "alive" (0.5-1.0mm) to add on top of what you already have. Or you could get some more Special Grade Reef Sand (1.0-2.0mm).

I don't know how long your tank has been set up, but assuming it more than a few weeks, I don't think I would bother trying to mix in the new, smaller stuff. On the other hand, maybe you can get away with a little of that, assuming you go with one of the slightly smaller particle size products. After adding about 1/2" of new sand on top of the existing sand bed, just use a long-handled wooden spoon or spatula to gently stir up the top 1" or so of the sediment to blend in the new stuff a little.

I think using one of the smaller particle size products would be the better way to go and I think you should try to raise the sand bed up to about 2.5". I don't think I would add sugar sized sand on top of what you have already because eventually all of the sugar sized sand would end up on the bottom and all of the 1-2mm stuff would end up on top. Smaller particle sizes tend to settle down over time as the larger stuff rises to the surface.

[scooterman]

My apologies for not being through in explaining, I mistook what you posted as being new to this tank & not new to reefing. These systems are throughly designed to work well as is but as already mentioned your already covered with your LR & sand.

[paulkva]

Ninong,

I contacted Red Sea. Per their response, the tank design puts the carbon in a place that requires removal of the pumps for maintenance. Also per their response, placing the carbon anywhere else will inhibit water flow.

I decided to put the carbon between the cup and the sponge, numbers 1 and 2 respectively, in the diagram you attached. This makes it readily accessible without having to disassemble anything and without too much degradation in flow. I know that it will collect detritus from the tank here. With it easily accessible, maintenance should not be a problem for me in the new location.

I have not done anything with the sand bed yet. I am planning to be out of town for a few days (long overdue vacation in San Diego) and want to be able to monitor and adjust if needed. I'll start to tackle it when I get back.

Thanks again for your help.

Paul