my initial setup and hello

[berkdog]

Hello Everyone!

I've been lurking for about a week+ now, and have been thinking about starting my first Marine Aquarium for saltwater fish. If people have 2 cents to add or any wisdom/suggestions, I'd greatly appreciate it!

I'm planning to purchase:
72 Gallon Bow Front Aquarium and stand (All-Glass Aqueon) like this one: Petsr4u - Aqueon Bow Front Aquarium 72 Gallon Black, Aquariums
Fluval FX5 Canister Filter like this one: Fluval FX5 Canister Filter
A Heater
Instant Ocean Salt
Live Sand

Then after 24-48 hours of it being set up, I'll get 2-4 $3 Damselfish to cycle my tank water for the next 4-6 weeks. Hopefully these will all survive, and I'll be able to donate them back to my petstore. Because during these 4-6 weeks I'll plan my tank, which will consist of about 6-10 fish some soft coral and some anemone.

How does that sound? Am I missing anything? Do I need a protein skimmer? Do you recommend I use another type of fish to cycle my tank with?

Thank you!

[reefplayground]

Hey, welcome.

honestly, if you are going to shoot for a reef, I would not go with the current set-up. Really do try and get a sump / refugium set-up as your main filer. You cna keep the canister, but keep it as a back-up filter. A quality protein skimmer will be an asset over the long run with maintaining good water quality.

Also consider the water source you plan to use for your system. If it's not going to be RO/DI, expect a good amount of issues with algae in the future.

If you do do the reef, consider the lighting you will need for your set-up. Because of the height, consider wither MH or HO-T5 fixtures.

If you cannot do that right now, You system will work fine as a FO system. Just avoid any larger carnivorous fish, and keep an eye on the water quality.

[berkdog]

Thanks! I'm doing a fish-only for now. Maybe in a few years I'll get a larger tank which will allow for more coral diversity. I'll be happy with a puffer (or 2), a mated pair of clownfish, and 2-4 other fish to make my home their home.

So, I now have a 72 gallon marine aquarium, 80lb live sand, and about 80lb live rock. I have a canister filter, which processes 925 GPH, and I put in a variety of media in the filter. This hobby sure is expensive! Even the 160gallon tub of Instant Ocean and water treatment (I didn't go for the RO/DI since it was nearly impossible to transport-- I got the first 15 gallons and gave up and decided to treat my tap water for the remaining 50 gallons). I also have a 250w marineland stealth heater, and will look into getting a protein skimmer in a couple of weeks. For the next month or 2, I'm just trying to cycle my environment, so tomorrow I'll pick up a couple of hardy danselfish. Hopefully they'll enjoy the trama of a new environment. I'll spoil them however I can, and will hopefully keep them healthy to survive the return trip to the petstore when I exchange them for my keeper fish.

Can you believe there was a (dead ) sea cucumber in my live rock collection? When I got home and was putting it all in the tank (it took over 4 hours to get the live rock from the store to my tank), I saw what looked to be a snake. When I finally removed enough rock to see what it was, a lifeless sea cucumber was there. I feel bad that it died, but didn't mean to do it. And I'm sure the petstore didn't mean to include this in my rock sale. Btw, live rock is $5-6 per pound, and they weigh it dripping wet (so that adds water weight). I got about 15-20 lb that isn't yet cured, and the rest is cured from 2 different pet stores. They were nice and gave me the pretty collections that they had in their for-sale fish aquariums. I really like this bridge shaped one I have.

Anyway, enough staring into my aquarium. I need to sleep. Tomorrow I need to perform more tests on the water and continue on with this fun hobby!

Thanks again for the advice. Feel free to share more.

[charlie]

Please don't get a couple of damsels for your tank, let the cycle complete it's process naturally, you don't have to help it along, there is no hurry. JMHO

[berkdog]

thanks for the suggestion! I've heard mixed reviews and pros and cons about having a couple of damselfish. I decided to go ahead and get them. A bit selfish on my part since it exposes them to risk, but I wanted to do so anyway. My petstore keeper said it'd be okay and that hopefully they'll survive and I'll be able to donate them back after cycling. It's sad that damselfish are so inexpensive so that makes it easy for me to risk their lives :-\ Just being honest... but think it's not too bad to have them and would recommend others to have a cheap and robust (damsel) fish or 2 in their cycling tank.

[charlie]

My petstore keeper said it'd be okay and that hopefully they'll survive and I'll be able to donate them back after cycling. It's sad that damselfish are so inexpensive so that makes it easy for me to risk their lives :

Of course he said it was OK to do that, it is money in their pocket!!!!

Please do yourself a favor and read a few of the stickys in this forum:
Saltwater (Fish-Only) Aquariums - Reeflands Forum

It is sad that LFS people say stuff like they said to you. JMHO

[Parrothead]

Agreeing with Charlie all the way, you stated you had cured and uncured live rock in the tank along with the so-called live sand, that is all you need to cycle your tank, I cycled my 55 the same way rock, sand and patience, that is all you need, additionally with the 80 lbs of live rock you will, never and I do mean never get the damsels out of the tank without removing most of the rock. Also, you run a very high risk of killing the little dudes during the cycle

Between your rock and sand you will cycle just fine, while it's cycling read, read and read some more as Charlie told you, I'd listen to him, I do.


Tanks,
Robert

[reefhead728]

I see an overloaded tank in burkdogs future with no patience, only death will follow

[mr_brix]

here you go buddy.. my set up



72 bow front
Fluval fx5
120lbs sugar fine sand
40lbs of LR mixed.. (more rocks will be added soon)

im in same situation before.. UNPATIENCE... i spend money to this and that and learn from it... for me i believe the damsel will survive but when the cycle is done you will deal with massive algea, red slime and other stuff..for protien skimmer i recomend a good quality.. right now i have a nano skimmer but it will replace soon.. and you must have powerheads at least 3 of them, it will neead good flow...

[berkdog]

Again, thanks for all of your suggestions! I'll keep reading.

I agree that there is risk for the damselfish to coexist during the cycling. They're here to stay (or die ) for the next month or 2! I hope they survive--they're really lots of fun to watch

Also, I'm aware of the challenge to remove them when I decide to update the inhabitants of the tank. I'll cross that road later, but thanks for reminding me of that risk.

Roofhead728 (), I hope you're not really able to see into the future. But if anyone looks 100 years+ into the future, I'm sure only death follows life (in all circumstances), but I don't quite appreciate your overloaded tank and lack of patience judgement call. Maybe you're speaking from your own mistakes?

mr_brix, that's cool! Our setups are similar. My rocks are setup differently and I don't have the extra pump(s) or skimmer yet, but that's my next step.

What protein skimmer is recommended? I hear mixed reviews. Like you, I have the Fluval FX5 and don't have a sump. I don't want to get a skimmer that is too bulky or doesn't fit in my tank well. I was looking at the nano skimmers... ??

As for powerheads, I sometimes feel like the FX5 is enough. Already my fish avoid the right-half of the tank (mine is setup like yours, with the outflow on the right and inflow on the left) because the current is so strong.

Anyway, I have been doing that 5-in-1 test and check my salinity/temperature daily. So far everything is optimal. I hear in a week or 2, those numbers will change because of the cycling. I will change 20% of my water every week to help. And hopefully get a skimmer in the next 2 weeks too.

Thanks everyone! Hope we can continue to share about our hobby (in a welcoming mannor to newbies). This hoppy is expen$$$$ive!

[charlie]

Believe me, it is expensive my friend!!!! Good luck!!!!

I like the remora pro hang on skimmer my self for a tank your size. Mine used to skim the daylites out of my 80.

[Parrothead]

Berkdog,

First off, don't change the water every week durinig the cycle unless you are using only uncured live rock, if you continuously replace water except as mentioned it will take alot longer to cycle, only top with ro or ro/di water to make up for evaporation,

A nano skimmer will be way, way to small for a 75 gal. tank no matter how lightly stocked, a good skimmer for your tank would be an aquac remora pro, it hangs on the back and if you read around in here you will see it is used by quite a few of us. does an awesome job.

as for the damsels and cycling with them, you are gonna hear that from the vast majority of people here including myself, it is not right to subject any live creature to the stress of cycling the tank, the chemical changes that will take place during the cycle are very very bad on fish. That is why nobody does it that way anymore, as I told you early, with the rock you have both cured and uncured, and your so called live sand. that will cycle your tank. Patience is the most important tool in this hobby, next to knowledge, so while you tank is cycling, to late to save the damsels, read and learn, ask questions, and understand there are newbies, intermediate and some down right genius' in here, we will all do our best to help you, but you got to be able to listen, and occasionally take some criticism. Comes with hobby.

Talk to you later

Tanks,
Robert

[berkdog]

Thanks again for the suggestions! I'll do my best to learn and not repeat mistakes.

As for the AquaC Protein Skimmer - Remora Pro,
do you suggest the Rio1400 or the Mag Drive 3? How about the optional collection cup drain? Or the surface pre filter accessory?

Thanks! And if people have suggestions on pumps/powerheads for a 72gallon tank with a Fluval FX5 and Remora Pro protein skimmer, I'd appreciate that too. Can you over-pump a tank? Or over-filter it? I will not change the water as suggested during cycling.

[charlie]

As for the AquaC Protein Skimmer - Remora Pro,
do you suggest the Rio1400 or the Mag Drive 3? How about the optional collection cup drain? Or the surface pre filter accessory?

Do the Mag3, a little unsightly, but with a little imagination, you can hide it. I haven't heard much good about the pre-filter. The drain is only if you are really lazy.

Thanks! And if people have suggestions on pumps/powerheads for a 72gallon tank with a Fluval FX5 and Remora Pro protein skimmer, I'd appreciate that too. Can you over-pump a tank? Or over-filter it? I will not change the water as suggested during cycling.

Look into Korallia powerheads. I can't see overskimming a system, tried, but I just can't see it.
Depending on the amount of sand you have, yes, you can probably get too much flow, but the corals won't think so unless you point the output right at them.

[Parrothead]

With Charlie 110%


Tanks,
Robert

[berkdog]

thank you again!

I'm thinking about setting up a quarantine tank. Do I need to have this set up so early? What exactly do I put in it?

Is a Marineland Emperor 400 a good enough filter for a quarantine tank? I saw one on sale (like 35 bucks) at my petstore. I'm thinking that's a great deal and okay for a 20 gallon quarantine tank. Yeah? When not used, I figure I can use the extra filter in my main tank... yeah?

So 20 gallon tank, a filter, a heater, a thermometer, some pvc pipe sections for hiding places... anything else I need in this quarantine tank?

Thanks for all the help! Today I saw a snail or crab in a shell in my tank. I think it fell out of the live rock. Should I take it out? I don't know if it's alive.

Anyway, love watching the tank! Do you still enjoy just staring at your tank all night? ...I mean after the years of doing it ;)

[Parrothead]

Berkdog,

1) Quarintine Tank, filter will work just fine on it, there are serveral really good articles here on QT tanks, read some of them, they will explain the how's and whys of why we do this. Now the filter will be only for the quarantine as at various times you will need to treat a fish with some meds that you do not want any where near your live rock and corals, don't ever take the filter off the qt tank and put it on the display tank. Got it?

2) congrats on you snail or crab, leave him be, try not to disturb your main tank any more that is absolutely necessary. let nature do her thing.

Tanks,
Robert

P.S. Do a search here in the forum on quarantine tanks, happy reading.

[berkdog]

Could I start the filter on the main display tank and then move it to the quarantine tank?

The snail/crab is alive! It moved. Thanks! Actually when I first brought my live rock home, I found a sea cucumber with it. I returned it to the store because I thought I'd risk its life if I kept it. The friendly petstore employee said it probably would have survived, but he took it back. When I visit the petstore, I see it hiding in a shell... I hope I didn't tramatize it too much.

Anyway, yes I've been reading about quarantine tanks. For acclimating fish to the new environment, to make sure they're perfectly healthy and eating and won't contaminate your main display tank, and a place to treat sick fish in the future. And since you need to clean it and everything in it between uses (using 5% chemical), never mix things between it and your main display tank.

My question is... does this always need to be set up and ready? Just a life-less tank all the time it's not being used? Or do I store it and fill it up when necessary. I also read that you should use the filter in ur main display tank first to get some helpful bacteria action in there. Does the quarantine tank need to be cycled? I don't get how it would need to be if there's no real life in there and only a mechanical/chemical filter (no bio).

Thanks for the advice

[Parrothead]

Yes you can start the filter on the main tank, but once place on the qt tank there it must stay as you have learned, as far as it being an empty box, the recommended time of qt for a new fish is 5-6 weeks, so if you don't rush things you will always have something in there, as for the empty times, and I did read some where there is somethings your can feed the qt tank to keep the good bacteria alive. also wehn you get ready to set the qt tank up,depending on size, which you haven't mentioned yet, I use a 20 gal, as I have a 55 gal. reef and am not putting anything large in it, you will siphon off the water from the main tank to use in the qt, plan it around a water change, again, it depends on the size qt you are setting up. Again, take your time, read, study and ask questions, this is a never ending learning experience, if you do it right it is a very rewarding and beautiful hobby to be involved in.


Tanks,
Robert

[berkdog]

Sounds like a plan. I read a lot of the main articles. My main display tank is 72 gallons. I'll get a 20-30 gallon quarantine tank. My next step will be to gather some additional clean up crew snails (or gross, worms) for the tank. I thought having the worm box in the back yard to make compost from food waste was enough worms! haha

I read about how you should either keep the quarantine tank active always (by adding random food items) or by completly cleaning it up. The strange thing is, when cleaning it out--they suggested to put the filter back in the main tank's sump. But that seems contrary to what is said elsewhere.

Do you have pictures of your reef tank?