a few 30 gal sump questions

[TuReal]

I have a 30 gallon tank thats going to be a sump. I was considering keeping it very basic with only one baffle. On inlet side it will be about 20 inches long with bout 15 lbs of mineral mud and a 1 inch cap of snow size aragonite. I will have rubble just below inlet to breakup waterflow and bubbles.

Then one baffle and then the section with return pump and titanium heater. Is this design ok?i have a skimmer that is not going in the sump at all.

and do i need a light over the sand and mud section? I will eventually ad some type of algea to this section.

[Chasman]

TuReal

Take a look at "melevsreef.com". At the home page click on "Acrylic Works & Diy" Then scroll down and on the left click on "Model A". This is a similar layout you are considering, although it is made of acrylic. You can do this with your 30. I think the small inlet box, which you could make, will be improtant if you are going to use mineral mud or sand. If you just use rubble I think you will have a constant battle with stirred up sand. That one has a bubble trap to the return area that you can put in or not. As you can see, this sump doesn't have a skimmer in it either. If you want to grow macro algea down the road, you just need to light the drain/sand area.

Chasman

[Original Fin]

I would make a third, small chamber for the inlet. Rubble could still go in there, but I'd keep the mud/refugium section seperate to avoid stirring it all up. I'd do the overflow section on the left, the return section in the middle, and the refugium on the right. The return pump should tee off with a ball valve to the refugium in order to have control over flow.

Since the skimmer will be located elsewhere, there will be a tendency for the sump to trap detritus, which could lead to nitrate issues if you don't also add a detrivore clean up crew of some sort. Is it an outboard skimmer, or a hang on the back?

You don't want a light until you add macroalgae. Otherwise, you will grow nuisance algae, and spores will get released to the display tank, and it will start growing there too. If you can take some measures to keep stray light out of other sections of the sump, all the better. A simple spiral type compact fluorescent in the 2700K-6500K color range with a $10 clip on reflector/fixture is all you will need for macro.

[TuReal]

The skimmer is a HOB which i really like. My challenge arises, as i would really like the refugium to be on display. I am afraid more baffles will look to home made with the silicone and cut plexi. It wont be under the main display, but set lower than the main tank with only the pump section hidden behind a stand i am building. I LOVE the idea of having a clean up crew in the fuge as well.

Would it make sense at all to have the overflow run to a T and then have a ball valve over the refugium to create a very slow flow. then just have the other side of the T flow to the return pump with maybe a filter sock or a carbon bag.

melevsreef.com is an amazing sight!!!!

[Original Fin]

Yeah. I think that would work too. I would still put a throttle control valve after the return though. I would think that a teed recirculation throttle valve would be much easier on the pump than just choking it off, but I'm no expert. JMO, and I could be wrong. The main things you want to adress are:

-Not having the return pump overdrive the overflow.
-Keeping sand, mud, detritus, critters etc... from possibly getting sucked into the return pump.
-Use of a siphon break in the return nozzle.
-The larger the return area, the more time you can "get away with" between top offs before running dry. Now is the time to think about an automatic top off system though.

[TuReal]

"I would still put a throttle control valve after the return though. I would think that a teed recirculation throttle valve would be much easier on the pump than just choking it off"

forgive me as i am new and confused lol. i have the overflow coming off the main display down to a T, one goes to the refugium with a ball valve. one goes back to the area where the pump is. Where do i put a throttle valve? would it go on the flextube from the pump back up to the tank.

Id love to do an ATO aswell, but im thinking ill get my tank running figure the entire processes out then do an OTA and maybe a UV sterilizer if it seems like a good idea.

I appreciate all the help as well

[Original Fin]

Yup, that's what I meant. On the return side plumbing.

It will make it easier to turn the valve if you used standard schedule 40 PVC pipe for most of the return line. Otherwise it's kind of like wrestling a snake. I would, however; do a short section of flex tubing coming directly off the pump to the hard PVC line, this will help to isolate vibration and noise, especially if you're not planning to get a top of the line pump.

Glad to help!

[TuReal]

I am unsure i understand the benifit of using this valve if i have a siphon overflow that flows down to both sides and there is constant water flow in the pump section. what does the valve do on the return. wont it cause the pump to have pressure on it, and possible slow the returning water and make it so it cant keep up with the siphon.

as u can tell im confused now lol!!

[Original Fin]

Ok, hypothetical numbers here, but let's say your overflow has a max flow rate of 600GPH, and your return pump is capable of a bit more, 800 gph perhaps.

If you did not use a valve to tune down the flow on the return pump, it would empty the return chamber faster than the overflow could replace...so you'd be sucking air and cavitating the pump. Not only would this look and sound bad, but it would harm the pump too. The return should always run a safe margin less than the overflow is capable of.

You can try to make all the head and flow calculations to determine what size return pump would be an ideal match at wide open, but this is much easier said than done in practice. the valve is there as a one time tuning tool. You may never need to use it again, or you may find that the pump loses or gains some performance over time, and you'll be able to compensate for it with a valve. I have found this useful with my Mag 7.

Why not just get a pump rated lower than your return? You could, but you may also find that your overflow is noisier than you'd like at wide open. You might want to use a silencing standpipe of some sort, in which case you'd lose some flow potential there too.

I guess what I'm saying is it's just a nice little bit of extra control you might want when it comes time to go live with it.

[TuReal]

Awesome Thank You So Much!

[Original Fin]

You bet, and happy reefing!

[TuReal]

Ok so im now non commital on my sump design lol. So i bought two peices of plexi one 15 tall and one 14 tall and i have two small 11 inch tall peices incase i want the overflow to the sump to run into a corner like melvesreefs simple design. Any more suggestions. I was leaning towards puting the 15 inch baffle first about 18 inches in. Then putting the 14 inch baffle one and half inches from the first baffle and elevated off the bottom. Leaving a twelve inch section for heater pump and misc other things if i need them.

Will this set up work or do i need a third baffle before the pump?

I still plan to put a T with a ball valve over the fuge and the other side of the t to the pump section with maybe a sock and carbon.

Sorry also i posted this from my phone at work maybe sloppy

[Chasman]

TuReal

Here is a pic of the sump I just built. I'm not done with the entire tank build but the sump is ready to go. The first pic the refugium is on the right, skimmer and drain on the left, with the return pump area in the middle. I will tee off the return pump with a valve to flow water to the fuge. The valve will be used to control the flow to the fuge. This is a 30 gal breeder tank. The second pic is fliped around and with water in it for a test run.

Chasman

[TuReal]

Chasman, Looks real good I guess my goal is to keep my refugium as large as possible and only have one area for pump and other parts so i can hide them. It seems like i have to get more plexi glass though as I only have two peices and your setup has three as the over under over. I was trying to do just an over then under, but i dont know that effects the pump areas water depth.

I like the T idea alot. Def going to do that!!

Thanks