How Do I Make A Refugium?

[ryanandsix]

i was just trying to get a little more water volume for my cheato to grow without getting outta hand. a little more room to grow i guess. i wanted to increase my sand bed a little bit more and that would give me less room for the cheato. i am totally open to suggestions. i did decide to keep my skimmer and live rock in the same sections as suggested to me. i was going to put something under my skimmer to lift it up a little bit if i decide to add more water. as far as the cat litter. i was going to purchase fuge mud. i really didnt like that you have to replenish it every 6-12 months. i have no problem doing the maintenece, i just wanted it to be simpler. the all clay cat litter is supposed to do the same thing. it was mentioned to me by someone at my LPS. I thought he was nuts. i came home and got online. he was correct, BUT some people say its great, some people say to just use the mud, some people say to just use substrate. its all very confussing. i just wanna do what would be best for my tank. the cat litter, seems to me, would be worth trying. i have absolutely nothing set in stone. thats why i ask all my friends(this reef forum) to help me out. im always open to suggestions and i dont get pissed if someone tells me that im doing something wrong. please, anybody, give me your thoughts. my cheato shipped yesterday, may 12th. i have a couple days to decide on what i will be doing. i do have another question. right now my substarte is approx 2 inches in my sump. how deep should it be? the section that the cheato will be in is 10x12 and the water is about 7 inches deep.

[chrisfont23]

I have read that low flow is best. I have had my crappy little HOB fuge up for a few weeks now, and have already trimmed my chaeto once as it took up the entire AC70 chamber it was in. Just remember to alternate your lighting. Tank on / fuge off, so your PH doesn't skew.

I dont have a bigger fuge, so I can't answer some of those questions... however, sometimes less is more, you know?

[Original Fin]

The thing about growing Chaeto is that it's only going to grow so thick before it blocks the light out to the underside, so making the grow section taller by increasing the height of your baffles probably won't help. Overall surface (growth) area is what you would need to increase for more growth, and since you can't change that, I'd say your setup is good as it is.

You are right about the deep sand bed needing to be exchanged
over time, but I think you're probably looking at several years before that's necessary. I would feel a lot more comfortable using aragonite sand knowing what to expect from it. Here's an idea...why not put the sand bed into a plastic/acrylic/glass container with a slightly smaller footprint than that fuge chamber? Cut a couple finger holes in the sides so you could easily lift it out without disturbing anything.

IME, the algae itself doesn't really care if flow is high or low, but what will happen with low flow is that it will trap detritus just like filter floss would. Not that this is a big deal...detritus is a source of nutrients for the Chaeto...it just kind if looks ugly. I have this issue with my setup. To deal with it, a couple times a week, I aggitate the Chaeto mass with a stick, which releases some of the detritus (and pods) back into the water column. I do this after lights out as my corals seem to show more polyp extension indicating they are feeding on it.

[reefMe1]

I agree with both of the above posters....Don't worry...you don't need that much room to grow Chaeto.

Reverse light cycle...NOT 24hrs. Some claim 24hrs... It didn't work for me....

Good idea on the sand in a secondary removable tray......

You got the skimmer plan right....adjust it up and down until you find the sweet spot...

Let's see some pics......

[ryanandsix]

i received my cheato yesterday. here are the pictures of my current sump/fuge. my girlfriend is hounding me to not mess with everything. the sump has been up and running for 8 months now. it has all kinds of little creatures that i hope are beneficial. with tubes of sand with tenticles coming out, little shell creatures and a bunch of other things. i think the advise that i received on here is excactly what i will do. no clay cat litter, no moving baffles and skimmer location or anything. seems like the easiest and best solution is to follow your advice. right now there's about 2-3 inches of aragonite substrate in the sump with lives rock. one rock has some leafy microalgae and a couple vines with grape looking things on them. i beleive thats caulerpa. if all this stuff is already growing and its all good, i'm not touching it. i think. one picture is my bubble trap. i have a piece of black foam at thr bottom of it, a sock full of denitrate, and another piece of black foam on top of that. should they be removed? my supply pipe has a filter sock on the end of it for a prefilter. also, i do have my light cycle switched. it on a automatic timer. the main tank light is on 8 hours a day. obviously then the sump light will be on 16 hours. what do ypou think the best light bulb would be. just a regular screw in.

[chrisfont23]

what do ypou think the best light bulb would be. just a regular screw in]

I use a LED light I bought at Lowes for like $20. It is a 3 bulb lamp that clips on and is flexible, so you can bend it in the right direction. At first I thought it wouldn't be enough. Three prunings later, I was obviously wrong. It's similar to this: Amazon.com: Fulcrum Clip-On Work Light/BBQ Light: Home Improvement

[Original Fin]

I use a LED light I bought at Lowes for like $20. It is a 3 bulb lamp that clips on and is flexible, so you can bend it in the right direction. At first I thought it wouldn't be enough. Three prunings later, I was obviously wrong. It's similar to this: Amazon.com: Fulcrum Clip-On Work Light/BBQ Light: Home Improvement

Good deal Chris! Glad it worked out.

[ryanandsix]

wow. thats it. nice. thank you

[reefMe1]

Very good looking. It looks like you are up and running.

I hate to say it but.....your girlfriend is right....let it be.....



hahahah ain't that the way it always works....

Now for some ideas....

1. Filter socks and filter sponges..... There are a couple of ways to go.....people are successful with all the different ideas so....it's up to you on how to run your system...
You can run socks and/or sponges all the time, you just need extras so you can change them out every couple of days. I run mine just when I do WC. I use a powerhead to blow off the live rock, I use a scrub pad around the inside of the fuge and then suck the gunk off the floor of the fuge and sandbed then I use a sock and filter sponge to help trap free floating detritus for a couple of days following. After that I run without until the next maintenance...... I put a sock on the return as it comes into the sump and then I cut notches into filter foam blocks and hang them on the baffles between the fuge and return pump section.... After a WC my tank is usually crystal clear within an hour. Again....try different things and figure out what works best for you....

2. Consistent parameters....You will read more and more about consistency..... If that is true letting your nastys build up and doing a WC once a month doesn't make sense like doing a smaller WC every week. I do 10 - 15 gallons every 8 days...It works with my rotation at work and it's easy to remember...Again like other things in my house...sometimes it's 8,9,10 or even 11 days......hahahaha

3. Figure out the Alk, Calcium and Magnesium parameters and how to get and KEEP them up...... I have begun getting them where I want in my WC water before doing a WC and this seems to help. I only began dosing a couple of months ago but since then......better growth and stuff looks healthier......I can't afford to buy colonies so I have to start with frags....so I need good growth......

Sorry so long winded....If I get a chance I will post a current FTS and sump pic. I moved some stuff around in the sump the other day.... gimme a day or two.

[Original Fin]

Very good looking. It looks like you are up and running.

I hate to say it but.....your girlfriend is right....let it be.....



hahahah ain't that the way it always works....

Now for some ideas....

1. Filter socks and filter sponges..... There are a couple of ways to go.....people are successful with all the different ideas so....it's up to you on how to run your system...
You can run socks and/or sponges all the time, you just need extras so you can change them out every couple of days. I run mine just when I do WC. I use a powerhead to blow off the live rock, I use a scrub pad around the inside of the fuge and then suck the gunk off the floor of the fuge and sandbed then I use a sock and filter sponge to help trap free floating detritus for a couple of days following. After that I run without until the next maintenance...... I put a sock on the return as it comes into the sump and then I cut notches into filter foam blocks and hang them on the baffles between the fuge and return pump section.... After a WC my tank is usually crystal clear within an hour. Again....try different things and figure out what works best for you....

2. Consistent parameters....You will read more and more about consistency..... If that is true letting your nastys build up and doing a WC once a month doesn't make sense like doing a smaller WC every week. I do 10 - 15 gallons every 8 days...It works with my rotation at work and it's easy to remember...Again like other things in my house...sometimes it's 8,9,10 or even 11 days......hahahaha

3. Figure out the Alk, Calcium and Magnesium parameters and how to get and KEEP them up...... I have begun getting them where I want in my WC water before doing a WC and this seems to help. I only began dosing a couple of months ago but since then......better growth and stuff looks healthier......I can't afford to buy colonies so I have to start with frags....so I need good growth......

Sorry so long winded....If I get a chance I will post a current FTS and sump pic. I moved some stuff around in the sump the other day.... gimme a day or two.

Awesome post ReefMe1! I like your filter sock/pad regimen. I may have to borrow that one.

[ryanandsix]

thank you reefme1 and everyone else for your help. i will definetly be using your technique with just keeping the filter pads in for a day or two after a water change. i thought about dosing my saltwater storage tank with magnesium and stuff while it was still in the storage tank. just never have done it. i will be. i do have to do a couple minor things to keep the cheato in the proper area and one or two minor things to complete this project. i will have a couple pictures of the process.
my day to do general maintenece on my system is sunday. i am very dedicated to my sunday afternoon project. i do an 8 gallon water change every other sunday. its always 8 gallons because thats what fits in my rubbermaid container without giving me any problems carrying it outside. i've been doing this for about 8 months now and i only have 2 fish and one coral in my tank. besides the clean up crew. i've been trying to get my nitrate down to almost zero before i start stocking it. i've never had a nitrate above 50 ppm. when i use a r\o\di and try everything to bring the nitrates down and i cant. thats why i'm doing the fuge. i would like to have everything under control before i invest in livestock. i think i've been very patient with this whole process. i'm not going to lie to you, i'm very ready to start stocking. i hope and i think that this fuge should put me on the right path.

[chrisfont23]

i think i've been very patient with this whole process. i'm not going to lie to you, i'm very ready to start stocking. i hope and i think that this fuge should put me on the right path.

That's the key. The fuge may take a few weeks or so to really kick in. But definitely try to reevaluate it's effects. For me, my fuge is small. I didn't know how the HOB would scale to meet the needs of my tank. Only until a week ago did I see my fuge really make a difference - it wasn't much - about 2-5 ppm lower in Nitrates. I am evaluating next steps now.

[reefMe1]

When you mix up new saltwater it should always be ready to go. It should match your current params or even be a little better. I stress a little because some livestock/corals can become stressed by a sudden increase in water quality the same as they would in a sudden decrease. Remember CONSISTENT CONSISTENT CONSISTENT

I usually mix my water and have everything ready to go before I even think about putting it in.

Do us a favor and post a full set of params on a fresh batch of water after you have mixed it all up. Salt and water only so we can get an idea of your starting point. I am particularily interested to see your nitrates on new water....

As for dosing...... don't be scared....be cautious and research before you do ANYTHING!!!

There are many ways to go about it but remember these three things.....

Magnesium first.....
Calcium and Alk after Mag and in tandem because one affects the other.
smaller maintenance doses versus big catch up doses.....

BTW.....pics!!!! Give us a couple of pics so we can see.

[ryanandsix]

i will definetly do the water perameters on a new post. i use 2, 55 gallon drums(plastic food grade) for my water. one has fresh RO/DI water in it for top offs. the other has my saltwater mixed up with a heater and a power head. i use reef crystals for my salt. i have tested my fresh saltwater and my RO/DI fresh water for nitrates and everything else. just for the simple reason, because i have no clue where my nitrates are coming from. i'm also currently working on the removeable tray for my fuge. which is a great idea. pics and a new post will be coming.

[ryanandsix]

my refugium is finally done. i did do a couple modifications to it. it has approx. 3"-4" of substrate now. just substrate, not mud or cat litter. i raised my skimmer up 3" to get a little more water. the water from the skimmer chamber flows over into the fuge chamber about 3" above the substrate. flow thru that chamber up to the top of the bubble trap. it flows overtop of my rock and cheato perfectly. then the water has to go up a couple inches to the top of the bubble trap. right now i have my sock on the supply down from the main tank and a piece of black foam in the bubble trap. they will be removed in a day or two. i hope this takes care of my nitrate problem. i did my water tests yesterday, all the readings were perfect, but my nitrate was still around 20ppm. i know thats not outta control, but it is usually around 50ppm.

[chrisfont23]

That looks great! Good work

[ryanandsix]

thank you. i started out by just adding more substrate and removing some rock. i figured if i was already going this far, i might as well do a couple other things. one thing led to another and this is how it turned out. i'm very happy with how it turned out.

[reefMe1]

Very nice looking ryan. Now relax, do a WC in a couple of days and remove the sock and sponge tomorrow. Give the fuge time to work and settle in. Don't expect big changes over night. Make sure that light is on a reverse cycle from your display lights.

[ryanandsix]

thank you very much. thank you reefme1 for your idea on removing the sock and the sponge. very good idea. that's excactly what i'll be doing tonight. i know nothing happens quickly in this hobby. it's hard to be patient sometimes. i've been very patient with my tank, i will continue to be. i will put new posts up as my refugium progresses. my next new post will be the storage water readings. this has been a great post and has helped me very much. i love it!!!!!