I might be back! ;-) But I have a drilling question...

[SouthBayPhoto]

Hey all...

It's been a few years since I've been here and have been running a FOWLR system. I originally had a 46gal bowfront that I was running for a year or two and was building a 90 gal at the time. Unfortunately I had to sell the 90 gal to pay for some medical bills due to a motorcycle accident.

Anyyyyway, I still have my 46 gal bowfront, but the "odd" shape has always driven me nuts. I may have a chance in the up coming few days to buy a 135 gal (he isn't sure if it's 135 gal or not, he just knows the tank is 6 feet long and he "thinks" it's 135 gallons) tank. However, the tank is NOT drilled for any type of bulkhead/reef type system (as my 90 gallon was). My question is...can I get this tank drilled to put bulkheads in? My understanding that if the glass is tempered, it's a no-go. How do I find out if the glass is tempered or not? This won't necessarily stop me from buying the tank because I think it's quite a deal ($150 for the tank, stand, canopy, fluval filter and lighting setup), but I'd like to have it reef setup if possible. Would a local aquarium shop know if the glass is tempered or not? Is there a way they (or even I) can tell?

If the glass is tempered and I cannot drill for bulkheads, then what's the best way to run a FOWLR tank in a tank like that? Should I just do everything with a HOB like I did on my 46 gallon? (HOB Aquaclear filter and HOB skimmer) I recall years ago that some people that didn't have "reef ready tanks" used a setup that hung on the back that drained down into the sump below and then pumped back up into the tank on the opposite side...is that still the case now a days?

Sorry for all the questions...I've just been out of the game so long, that it feels like I'm starting all over from scratch. :-( Like I said, I was hoping to buy a "reef ready" tank, but I just don't have that kind of money right now. So, if I can get this deal for $150, then I figured I'd go for it as it's better than sticking with my little 46 gal bowfront that I can't stand any longer.

Thanks in advance for the help!
Mat

[Reefing Madness]

Most of the tanks if tempered its on the bottom, usually you can drill the back. In this case you could use the BeanAnimal Coast to Coast Overflow, or Herby Overflow. If in doubt about that you can call the manufactor and they will tell you. You can also take it to a glass company and they have a device that can tell whats tempered, so they can tell you.
You can use filters as HOB or under cabinet, thats not going to be a problem, most will just run you high trates. But in a FOWLR thats not an issue unless you start running them above 50. I'd run a big canister eheim filter or the Ocean Clear filter for a FOWLR, those are big enough to handle the waste.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Thanks for the info. I'd love to call the manufacturer, but since I'd be getting the tank used, I'd have no clue who the manufacturer of the tank is. That's the bad part.

However, since posting, I have found a couple of other tank setups that are supposedly already drilled, but I'm waiting to hear back from them at this time. Hopefully they still have the tanks and are willing to deal. If not, then I'm back to my first choice which is the 135 with no holes, so to speak. LOL

I guess I can call around to glass companies in the area and explain what I have and see if anyone can test it, if they can, then I'll load it into my truck and take it down. The good part is I'm not in a hurry to set this thing up and it's going to take a while, so that's good.

Now, if none of the glass happens to be tempered, how many and where should I have the holes put at? Like I said before, my 90 gal just had one drain hole in the floor dead center in the back of the tank. I then had to run PVC tubes up the back of the tank and over the back sides of the tank and into the tank for the returns. I've never actually looked at a "real" reef tank that is set up from the factory, so I'm not sure how many drains and/or return holes it is supposed to have to be effective.

If I ended up getting a canister filter, as you suggested, would I just run that though the sump underneath? Or have that as one of my "returns" going back up to the tank? I'm figuring on setting this tank up (even if I can't have it drilled or if it's pre-drilled) to have a sump underneath and was going to try and put my skimmer inside the sump and the return pump inside the sump as well. That's how I was setting my 90 gal up.

Again, thanks for the help!
Mat

[Reefing Madness]

Thought you were going to use the filter instead of a sump, my bad. If your going to use a sump, don't add the filter to it, no need to.
Now, if your going to drill for bulkheads, for a 125-135, you would want 4 holes, 2 for intake and 2 for return. 2 in each corner, 1 intake and 1 return next to each other. Or there is the other, 4 right in the middle of the tank, 2 intake and 2 return, with this being done, people use black acrylic to make the box around the lines so to hide them.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Thanks for the further info. No, I am planning on just using a sump with live rock in it. On my 90 gal, I only had one drain bulkhead that was installed in the middle of the floor to the back and it had a black acrylic box around it. I made a Durso standpipe for it and installed it into the bulkhead. The water then drained straight down into my sump (and what would have been into the same compartment as the live rock - If I had it set up, but I never got that far, but I did test it with just plain water) and then the water went into a second compartment when I had a MAG-12 pump that pumped the water back up the back of the tank (outside), through a ball valve where I could regulate the water pressure from the MAG-12 pump and then it basically split in two like a field goal post of a football field and ran up and over the back (one on each side) and that is where my returns came back into the tank. I just worked with what I had. I do have pictures of it, but they are buried on a CD that I can't get to right at the moment. I'll try and pull that DVD out tomorrow and post up the pictures, so you can see what I did with my 90 gal.

Unfortunately, one of the drilled 137 gal tanks have been sold and the non-drilled 135 gal tank was sold right when I was going over to view it. I'm waiting on one of the other drilled 135's to email back, but I have a feeling it's been sold too. So, now I'm going through and checking out other options. I may get another 90 gal because I did like that setup and it seemed nice before. I never got to fully set up my 90 gal. The only thing I had left to buy was sand, live rock and fill it with water to start it off, but I never got that far. Anyway, I was even possibly thinking of a 75 gallon, but I don't know. Now I'm kind of afraid that I'm just picking anything just to get a bigger tank than my 46 bowfront.

The biggest hangup I have right now is I keep trying to find tanks that already have drains and/or returns drilled into them. I guess because my 90 was like that, I figure it's the way to go instead of the HOB system. Does it really matter? Is it easier to use a sump with a tank that has the drains/returns drilled already or doesn't it really matter?

Sorry for all the questions. I feel like I'm totally starting over. I would like to get a longer tank so the fish have more room to swim around (verses a "taller" tank where they would have to swim upwards), so that's why I keep considering the 135. But funds are at a premium right now. I'm hoping to find someone willing to make a deal with me since I'd have cash in hand.

[Reefing Madness]

Yea, hold out for the bigger tank, you get bigger fish. As far as having to use a sump, I don't. I don't run a filter either. Just Live Rock and a skimmer. Its better to use one, you can hide all the things under your tank, run cheato and all that good stuff, but you don't have to have one.

[SouthBayPhoto]

That's what I was thinking as well. Not that I minded my 90, but I never got it up and running. I was a bit bummed about that. Anyway, I'm going to go look at a 135 tomorrow morning (as long as he doesn't sell it by the time I get there like the last one. LOL). So, we'll see how it goes. He's been trying to sell it the past month (at least according to the posting of the ad), so hopefully he's willing to deal. Plus, it says OBO on the ad, so I'm hoping he really means it. If so, I might be coming home tomorrow afternoon with a 135 gal. But I'm not getting my hopes up cuz I don't want to get crushed if he says no. This one isn't drilled, but at least comes with the stand, tank and canopy. He said it's an "old school" tank with thick glass. Even in the pictures it looks like it's 1/2" glass, which should be good, I would think.

So, I'd have to buy an HOB overflow system. Can you buy/install black acrylic to hide a HOB overflow system just like you would for a drilled/bulkhead drain/return system? Or will it mess up the HOB overflow system? I think you mentioned a couple of HOB overflow systems in an earlier post. I'm going to try and Google them and check them out. I'm really not sure how a HOB overflow systems works.

Ya, I was looking into using a sump so I can hide a heater and my skimmer down below the main tank. That's probably my main reason for going with the sump system. So, ultimately, I would need to buy the HOB overflow system, an actual sump (or a smaller aquarium to use as a sump), a pump for the return water to the main tank, PVC piping for the return lines to the main tank (which I already have), a heater and some live rock to put into the sump, correct? I mean, I'd also have live rock in the actual tank itself, but should I put some live rock in the sump as well? Or does that mean I'd have to put a light over the sump for the live rock in the sump? Or would the live rock in the main tank be enough and just running cheato in the sump would work? I've heard of cheato, but never really looked into it before.

[SouthBayPhoto]

Oooops...I guess the two suggestions you mentioned above were if I had bulkheads/drilled drain/return lines.

I'll have to search on here about HOB overflow boxes and what ones people suggest to use.