Chillers..a few questions

**scubadude** · 10-20-2001, 09:52 AM

Ok im in the market for probably either a 1/3hp or 1/2hp chiller....I definately want an inline model (NO drop in) I also want to have the tempature controller, and last but probably the most important....I want a VERY dependable model! Yes $$ does matter but my theory is as long as the chiller is effecient then I can justify spending around a $1000 for what im looking for. I have a 220g tank with a 55g sump/refugium which has an 2100GPH pump that serves to my spraybar as my return....I would like to plumb the chiller to this pump and Im wondering how much more flow im gonna lose? From the look of most chillers im sure I will be adding a few more elbows and I dont know if there is alot of zig-zagging goin on inside the chiller which would also decrease flow. I dont know exactly what my Pull-Down range will be but im guessing around 10 degrees....what does everyone keep their chiller at? I have heard that 77degrees is a good number? also im worried about heat issues in the room this is a big tank in a small room....Im gonna be running 3-250 HQI MH's and the Chiller which will both be creating heat into this room.....my thoughts where to create a small closed in section for the chiller and the vents for my lights and exhaust it w/fans into the attic?

Ltspd · 10-20-2001, 09:56 AM

Do you need one?

**scubadude** · 10-20-2001, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ltspd
Do you need one?

The room that the tank is in is the farthest room away from the central A/C unit, thus its the warmest room. I Have my 20g hood/lighting (a 175w MH) on the 220g tank right now for temp. lighting until my hood with the 3 HQI's is complete....I have peaked out almost at 83 (on the tank) with just this lighting on it and the A/C is running in the house

Im sure that with 3 HQI's I will be running much hotter...and we are in the cool part of the year for us down here....Summer is OVER pretty much....So yes im pretty sure I will need it ....besides now that I think about it my 90 has been avging 79-84 and the other day I took a fan off so I could measure the circumference for my big tank hood and I forgot to put it back on and my temp skyrocketed in my 90...I think I lost one of my acros (bleached) and there are a few others that arent looking good....I was putting ice in the sump...and I have decreased my photoperiod on the MH's. If you look at SueT's setup she keeps a chiller and has her chiller set to maintain 77 degrees 24/7 and her acros are thriving!! Im not saying that If I copy her setup that I will get thriving acros but with this tank I dont want to skimp anywhere!!

Ltspd · 10-20-2001, 10:23 AM

Bummer.

I keep dodging the chiller. So far I can maintain 77 degress with both fans running and I am still testing without the fans. The tempared glass seems to help out a lot.

If I ever need a chiller I am serioulsy considering a underground piping route. I would run the tank water from the sump thru the basement wall to a underground recirculation setup. Ground temp stays around 76 degress here as long as you go below 18" which is easy in my case. The key would be contact time with the "outside" run. Hopefully I will never need to do this

organicreefer · 10-20-2001, 12:12 PM

how high are you mounting the lights above the water scuba?ime if you mount youre lights 10" above the water and use fans ,you shouldnt need a chiller.

Strangelove · 10-20-2001, 03:55 PM

I'm basically in the same boat as SD. I'm setting up a 220 with 2 400w MH and 2-3 145w VHO actinics. I plan to hang the 400's 12" above the water and the VHO's maybe 6" above. I'm running an Aquasea 3600 for skimmer and return. Sump will be in the next room. LFS says (and I take what they tell me with a grain of salt) that there's no way I'm going to be able to do this w/o a chiller.

They also insist that SPS grow much better at 75 F. My current 90 with PC's runs around 80-82 F. I've read that most folks run higher temps than 75.

Has anyone run 1000w or so over a 220 w/o a chiller?

organicreefer · 10-20-2001, 04:30 PM

i have a 400w 12k halide and 2 96w pc's on my 90 ,and i dont have any trouble keeping the tank at 80.it might get to 82 if its a 100 degrees outsideand i dont crank the ac..i say mount youre lights correctly(12 inches is reccomended)and try it out,if you cant keep youre tank 80 or below,get a chiller(or maybe a window air conditioner ?).and dont listen to anyone who says running youre tank at 83-85 degrees is "no big deal".

**scubadude** · 10-20-2001, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by organicreefer
how high are you mounting the lights above the water scuba?ime if you mount youre lights 10" above the water and use fans ,you shouldnt need a chiller.

My hood that im building w/the 3 HQIs they will be about 9" away...and the hood with the 175 that Im using now is about 14" away

I will run for a while w/out the chiller, and see how it works out but I dont want my tank to run over 83 to tell you the truth.

FISHme · 10-20-2001, 05:10 PM

Scuba, That is a pretty good idea about placing the chiller into a seperate location with an exhaust fan but I personally don't know how anyone with a chiller (in the house) can stand the heat or the noise. I run my chiller outside the house. I live in a condo and am on the 2 nd floor. I have a covered patio and located my chiller there.
I run it at 80-81 degrees with softies and sps's. I saw your set up and the only thing you realy need to worry about is too much water flow through the sea swirls, they can only handle so much. I run a mag 1800 through quite a few twists an turns and still get pretty good flow to the tank. I have a 95 gal with a one inch sea swirl centered in the tank and my biggest problem when I first set it up was the sand blowing around. I think with your pumps you should be fine with running a 1/3 hp chiller with 1"pvc.
There is a mail order co selling the custom sea life for $699, I paid like $850 for mine a year or so ago.

FISHme · 10-20-2001, 05:13 PM

FISHme · 10-20-2001, 05:19 PM

FISHme · 10-20-2001, 05:26 PM

FISHme · 10-20-2001, 05:32 PM

**golfish** · 10-20-2001, 05:44 PM

Scubadude,
A chiller is gonna cost ya some $$$ to run. I wont even get into the 6 bucks you wanted to save by shutting down your Amp Master for 12 hours per day

I run three 4" fans in the canopy, A ceiling fan and I also have a large room fan setup just outside the door of the tank room. This fan blows air from the outside room into the tank room. I also keep the house below 78 with central air. With all these fans running the temp still runs 80 in the morning to 83.3 at night. With just the HQI's, PCs and NOT the 400 watter I wouldn't have a problem. The 400 watter really adds the heat.

I'll probably get a chiller up and running by next summer, not so much because of the heat but because of the 5 gal + evaporation. Making 35+ gal of RO\DI water a week cost some $$ also.

I looked in to it a little and found these to be about the best

http://www.reeffanatic.com/cgi-bin/c...S13&type=store

**scubadude** · 10-20-2001, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by golfish
I wont even get into the 6 bucks you wanted to save by shutting down your Amp Master for 12 hours per day

lol....yer killin me

Quote:

Making 35+ gal of RO\DI water a week cost some $$ also

Exactly

Guys!!! I am gonna wait it out and see how hot the tank gets!! im NOT ready to go throw my $$ away right now :P

Let me elaborate here a little bit more too to make you guys understand from the point that I see it from....Ok everyone who does not run Chillers is running low to mid 80's (and probably has alot more cyano/other pesky algae probs) yeah the corals are ok and some are even thriving, and there are alot of areas out in the ocean where that is the norm temp or even higher....but we dont have the current the ocean does.

Quote:

From Julian Sprung "The Reef Aquarium"

Temperature is the most critical physical parameter for captive reef systems, Ideal temperature is 74-76 Farenheit, If all other parameters are ideal but the temperature is not the reef will not thrive.

**golfish** · 10-20-2001, 08:41 PM

Sorry dude, just bustin your bio balls

Yeah, 5+ gal a day evapotration is killing me. I have a two more doors in the house I need to take down and plane\sand because there swelling up from the humidity. The house plant like it tho

Your doing the right thing waiting. Get that bad boy fully setup and see what it does. I'm with you on the lower temps. Even tho I'm able to keep temps at 83 and lower, I would much rather have a more stable and lower temp.

The fan blowing air into the tank room really helps a lot.

Mark

**golfish** · 10-20-2001, 08:56 PM

FISHme,
I really like the way you setup your chiller. Did you just drill the holes in the wall? I could do the same but my wife would kill me if I drilled holes in our wall. I could go through the window maybe, drill holes in the glass. I wonder if I can get a glass shop to drill my window

Are you pumping from the sump to the chiller, then up to the tank? What size chiller is it? how low of temp do you think you can go with that chiller? What pump are you using? Is it the Mag 18? I thought you had to run the water slower through the chiller?

Sorry for all the questions. I think this is going to be my next big project, shhhhhhhhhhhh, I got to keep this low key so the wife don't find out

Mark

Ironreef · 10-20-2001, 08:58 PM

fwiw i understand keeping your temp low but temps 73-75 the reef won't survive is quite a debate. I bet most ppl with halides keep there reef 80+. I keep mine down by having a refugium in the garage= cold. But I don't live in a hot climate but my tank runs hot =in wall and acylic

FISHme · 10-20-2001, 09:22 PM

Golfish,
It's really not bad going through the block wall, you can easily fill it with stucco if it ever needed to be removed. The chiller is a CustomSeaLife 1/3 hp.
I run the chiller from the tank to the chiller , in the last photo that I posted you can see the inlet to the chiller to the right of the seaswirl. The maufacturer reccomends to NOT run the return from the sump for some reason.
I run a mag 1800 and the manufacturer of the chillerhas a flow chart , I don't remember righyt off hand what it is but it works great the way I have it set up.
I don't know how low the temp will go but when I first set it up I as running it at around 75 but then read that most people reccomended to run it closer to 80 so that is where it runs now. It is nice to set and forget

The temperature debate again??

Ironreef, what temp do / would /you keep your tank at if you had a chiller ?
It's amazig how one expert says higher and another expert says lower !!!!
All I know is that I am glad I got the chiller and can keep a stable temp.

I SPEND TO MUCH MONEY ON THIS HOBBY!!!! (So what !!! ) ?

**golfish** · 10-20-2001, 10:02 PM

FISHme,
Your right about the wall, I'm more concerned about the outside then I am the inside. I'll figure something out. So its just a closed loop, no overflows or sump is involved. Hec, I could even put the pump outside. Your right about the flow, I just saw one that was 600-2100 gph for 1/3 hp..Thanks for the help

Mark

10-20-2001, 09:52 AM	#1
scubadude Moderator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wichita, Kansas Posts: 5,232	Chillers..a few questions Ok im in the market for probably either a 1/3hp or 1/2hp chiller....I definately want an inline model (NO drop in) I also want to have the tempature controller, and last but probably the most important....I want a VERY dependable model! Yes $$ does matter but my theory is as long as the chiller is effecient then I can justify spending around a $1000 for what im looking for. I have a 220g tank with a 55g sump/refugium which has an 2100GPH pump that serves to my spraybar as my return....I would like to plumb the chiller to this pump and Im wondering how much more flow im gonna lose? From the look of most chillers im sure I will be adding a few more elbows and I dont know if there is alot of zig-zagging goin on inside the chiller which would also decrease flow. I dont know exactly what my Pull-Down range will be but im guessing around 10 degrees....what does everyone keep their chiller at? I have heard that 77degrees is a good number? also im worried about heat issues in the room this is a big tank in a small room....Im gonna be running 3-250 HQI MH's and the Chiller which will both be creating heat into this room.....my thoughts where to create a small closed in section for the chiller and the vents for my lights and exhaust it w/fans into the attic? __________________ Rocky

10-20-2001, 09:56 AM	#2
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	Do you need one? __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

10-20-2001, 10:23 AM	#4
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	Bummer. I keep dodging the chiller. So far I can maintain 77 degress with both fans running and I am still testing without the fans. The tempared glass seems to help out a lot. If I ever need a chiller I am serioulsy considering a underground piping route. I would run the tank water from the sump thru the basement wall to a underground recirculation setup. Ground temp stays around 76 degress here as long as you go below 18" which is easy in my case. The key would be contact time with the "outside" run. Hopefully I will never need to do this __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

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10-20-2001, 12:12 PM	#5
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	how high are you mounting the lights above the water scuba?ime if you mount youre lights 10" above the water and use fans ,you shouldnt need a chiller.

10-20-2001, 03:55 PM	#6
Strangelove Citizen Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, PA USA Posts: 101	I'm basically in the same boat as SD. I'm setting up a 220 with 2 400w MH and 2-3 145w VHO actinics. I plan to hang the 400's 12" above the water and the VHO's maybe 6" above. I'm running an Aquasea 3600 for skimmer and return. Sump will be in the next room. LFS says (and I take what they tell me with a grain of salt) that there's no way I'm going to be able to do this w/o a chiller. They also insist that SPS grow much better at 75 F. My current 90 with PC's runs around 80-82 F. I've read that most folks run higher temps than 75. Has anyone run 1000w or so over a 220 w/o a chiller?

10-20-2001, 04:30 PM	#7
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	i have a 400w 12k halide and 2 96w pc's on my 90 ,and i dont have any trouble keeping the tank at 80.it might get to 82 if its a 100 degrees outsideand i dont crank the ac..i say mount youre lights correctly(12 inches is reccomended)and try it out,if you cant keep youre tank 80 or below,get a chiller(or maybe a window air conditioner ?).and dont listen to anyone who says running youre tank at 83-85 degrees is "no big deal".

10-20-2001, 05:10 PM	#9
FISHme Council Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida Posts: 495	Scuba, That is a pretty good idea about placing the chiller into a seperate location with an exhaust fan but I personally don't know how anyone with a chiller (in the house) can stand the heat or the noise. I run my chiller outside the house. I live in a condo and am on the 2 nd floor. I have a covered patio and located my chiller there. I run it at 80-81 degrees with softies and sps's. I saw your set up and the only thing you realy need to worry about is too much water flow through the sea swirls, they can only handle so much. I run a mag 1800 through quite a few twists an turns and still get pretty good flow to the tank. I have a 95 gal with a one inch sea swirl centered in the tank and my biggest problem when I first set it up was the sand blowing around. I think with your pumps you should be fine with running a 1/3 hp chiller with 1"pvc. There is a mail order co selling the custom sea life for $699, I paid like $850 for mine a year or so ago.

10-20-2001, 05:13 PM	#10
FISHme Council Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida Posts: 495	>

10-20-2001, 05:19 PM	#11
FISHme Council Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida Posts: 495	>

10-20-2001, 05:26 PM	#12
FISHme Council Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida Posts: 495	>

10-20-2001, 05:32 PM	#13
FISHme Council Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida Posts: 495	>

10-20-2001, 05:44 PM	#14
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,925	Scubadude, A chiller is gonna cost ya some $$$ to run. I wont even get into the 6 bucks you wanted to save by shutting down your Amp Master for 12 hours per day I run three 4" fans in the canopy, A ceiling fan and I also have a large room fan setup just outside the door of the tank room. This fan blows air from the outside room into the tank room. I also keep the house below 78 with central air. With all these fans running the temp still runs 80 in the morning to 83.3 at night. With just the HQI's, PCs and NOT the 400 watter I wouldn't have a problem. The 400 watter really adds the heat. I'll probably get a chiller up and running by next summer, not so much because of the heat but because of the 5 gal + evaporation. Making 35+ gal of RO\DI water a week cost some $$ also. I looked in to it a little and found these to be about the best http://www.reeffanatic.com/cgi-bin/c...S13&type=store

10-20-2001, 08:41 PM	#16
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,925	Sorry dude, just bustin your bio balls Yeah, 5+ gal a day evapotration is killing me. I have a two more doors in the house I need to take down and plane\sand because there swelling up from the humidity. The house plant like it tho Your doing the right thing waiting. Get that bad boy fully setup and see what it does. I'm with you on the lower temps. Even tho I'm able to keep temps at 83 and lower, I would much rather have a more stable and lower temp. The fan blowing air into the tank room really helps a lot. Mark

10-20-2001, 08:56 PM	#17
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,925	FISHme, I really like the way you setup your chiller. Did you just drill the holes in the wall? I could do the same but my wife would kill me if I drilled holes in our wall. I could go through the window maybe, drill holes in the glass. I wonder if I can get a glass shop to drill my window Are you pumping from the sump to the chiller, then up to the tank? What size chiller is it? how low of temp do you think you can go with that chiller? What pump are you using? Is it the Mag 18? I thought you had to run the water slower through the chiller? Sorry for all the questions. I think this is going to be my next big project, shhhhhhhhhhhh, I got to keep this low key so the wife don't find out Mark

10-20-2001, 08:58 PM	#18
Ironreef Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Pacific WA Posts: 1,220	fwiw i understand keeping your temp low but temps 73-75 the reef won't survive is quite a debate. I bet most ppl with halides keep there reef 80+. I keep mine down by having a refugium in the garage= cold. But I don't live in a hot climate but my tank runs hot =in wall and acylic

10-20-2001, 09:22 PM	#19
FISHme Council Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Pompano Beach, Florida Posts: 495	Golfish, It's really not bad going through the block wall, you can easily fill it with stucco if it ever needed to be removed. The chiller is a CustomSeaLife 1/3 hp. I run the chiller from the tank to the chiller , in the last photo that I posted you can see the inlet to the chiller to the right of the seaswirl. The maufacturer reccomends to NOT run the return from the sump for some reason. I run a mag 1800 and the manufacturer of the chillerhas a flow chart , I don't remember righyt off hand what it is but it works great the way I have it set up. I don't know how low the temp will go but when I first set it up I as running it at around 75 but then read that most people reccomended to run it closer to 80 so that is where it runs now. It is nice to set and forget The temperature debate again?? Ironreef, what temp do / would /you keep your tank at if you had a chiller ? It's amazig how one expert says higher and another expert says lower !!!! All I know is that I am glad I got the chiller and can keep a stable temp. I SPEND TO MUCH MONEY ON THIS HOBBY!!!! (So what !!! ) ?

10-20-2001, 10:02 PM	#20
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,925	FISHme, Your right about the wall, I'm more concerned about the outside then I am the inside. I'll figure something out. So its just a closed loop, no overflows or sump is involved. Hec, I could even put the pump outside. Your right about the flow, I just saw one that was 600-2100 gph for 1/3 hp..Thanks for the help Mark

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