HELP-I have Styrofoam under my tank!!!

[BigLar]

When I setup my RR 180 AGA a few weeks ago, I put Styrofoam underneath it. I just recently read a post where the seams on someone’s 180 came apart and flooded his house. He attributed this to the Styrofoam underneath the tank. I have sand and a small amount of rock in this tank, should I tear it down and remove the Styrofoam? Now is the time to do it before I transfer my corals!

Please advise!!!

[naser]

id say yes if you feel it might flex ... just get some new trash cans and hold the water there..

[afss]

I have styrofoam under my tank. Its there for a reason, its to help support the bottom of my tank, and to evenly ditribute the forces. There should be no problem in having styrofoam under your tank as long as it is under the whole tank, and not just part of it.
Scott

[organicreefer]

i would change that now,you might not have any problems but peace of mind is priceless.
all glass tank manufacturers reccomend you put the tank on a hard level surface,styrofoam is for acrylic tanks.

[naser]

in agreement with organic...

[BigLar]

I guess I'll be removing it

Not looking forward to it!!!

[naser]

dont feel that bad i had to drain my untire sump because i forgot to glue on stupid fitting coming off a pump.. just think a couple hours for a tank that wont break.

[Ironreef]

as far as I know all manufactures recommend hard surface. acylic would bow befor glass i would think. If your tanks not level I would level the stand. When I level heavy items at work we alway level the platform it's on.= 10ton + = no probs.

[Iron Crab]

I know I'm coming in late but I have a RR AGA 180. I contacted the company and they recommended not to put anything under the tank.
As long as your stand is level you should be OK.
I have an All-Glass stand, leveled perfectly and after a week the tank cracked anyways. Good thing I went with their stand. The LFS ordered me a new one that same hour.
I was told that it was a flaw in the glass. One good thing was that I didn't get any water on the floor. I used a small sump pump to empty the tank- then had to scoop out almost 300 lbs of sand

[BigLar]

Well, it was a BIG pain in the rear, but I tore down the tank and removed the styrofoam. Now I have to wait for the water to clear agian

[Ltspd]

I am in agreement with afss, I have it under my 170, along with several people on this BB and others. It acts as a self leveler and smooths out any in-diffrences.

IMO you have wasted your time. And received poor information from the people of this BB.

Is there a air gap between the bottom of the tank and the surface it rest on? If so you have created even more of a problem.

[Ironreef]

alot of ppl do it but why would most manufacture recommend against it? IMO it doesn't act as a self leveling device. it may sink it on the heavy spot = more LR and ls on one area of the tank = making not level. just because ppl do it. Just because alot of ppl haven't had probs. Still doesn't make it right. When I level heavy machinery we like to have it rigid = no give. Pool/jacuzzi tubs same thing. For a manufacture to not recommend this there may be a reason.

[Ltspd]

Ironreef, I work for a rigging company. There is a huge diffrence in the structural capability of steel verses glass or acrylic.

One very heavy machines such as large punch presses, and extrusion machines every single one of them are mounted to a dense fiber pad located under each foot. They are not tied down with anchors. Only anchors are used in lighter machines. I am working with one right now, that weighs 43000 lbs (100t bliss), and it is mounted just as I have described above.

If his tank rest on the bottom of the glass he is ok, but if there is any "air gap" between the glass and the supporting structure then he has a point at which the load concentrates due to the ability to flex. This point can shift a large amount of the force (down) to that spot. The use of styrofoam evens out the load and spreds it over the whole surface. My tank came with styrofoam glued to the bottom. It was a custom tank, not a AGA,Oceaninc.

The manufacture's stands also scare me, yes they work but they are engineered with cost in mind, not peace of mind.

[Iron Crab]

When I talked to the people at AG their reason was that there is no guarantee that the syrofoam or any other such foundation will settle evenly thus causing stresses on areas of the tank.
Yeah, manufacture's stands don't look as strong as I would want and I spent a lot of time in their ear with this. The point they made which is hard to deny is that they have built stands for decades. They have engineers to design them to hold the loads they are suppose to hold. Considering the liability, they have a good reason to put out a stand that will do the job. They even described stands they have seen oversees which the tank was supported on just both ends.
I'm not an expert on stresses but I consider the people who make these tanks to be or I don't think they would last too long.
I also work with heavy equipment. We build locomotives. A few years back I along with 3 other guys were moving out 100 tons of loco platforms a night. All the heavy equip had cushions under their feet to keep them from busting up the floor that was under them from the vibrations that they produced.

[organicreefer]

Originally posted by Ltspd


IMO you have wasted your time. And received poor information from the people of this BB.

,big lar ,you definitely did the right thing,go ahead and contact the manufacturer if you need any reassurance.

NONE , that is ,NONE ,of the major glass aquarium manufacturer's,would agree with placing any kind of "soft" or "compressible "material under youre tank.you never can be 100% sure how it is going to compress.
this isnt about opinion,this is about following the builder's reccomendation.
do some people have styrofoam under their(glass) tanks,yes,but who are you going to listen to?

[Ironreef]

Dunno but all the machenery I've moved for Boeing, Ingersol Rand ect we don't use pads They are put on mechanical slabs. Don't see a need for a pad except for vibration. Most heavy machinist equipment have self leveling table. So having the machine level you have the feet to level with the table also. The only pad we used was for our feet. I use to be a CNC operator also. But got bored with that.I work out of Local 86 now. Before that I moved alot of heavy equipment for Boeings. But engineeries here may have different specks than there. But thin styrofoam may not be bad, but say 1/2" and above if it settles it may not settle level= may put pressure on the glass. Makes me wonder why so many glass tanks leak?? I would rather have my tank on a solid surface. Just my preferance

[Ltspd]

Well, Mine has "pink" board under it. I leveled the whole tank with a starret machinist level. Now any of you you have done carpentry know that things like floors and walls are close but not exact when it comes to level. When I set my tank, I initially used a 4ft level to shim the stand as need be. When I layed the machinst level on it it was out, of course we are talking in the .001's. As I added sand then water the tank began to come closer to level, and the more I added the more precesie it got, finally ending up dead on both directions with the machinist level. The pink board styro is what enabled that. The only way you can be sure with a hard surface is to hae it surface ground. If you've set precise equipement you know that those plates that they go on are ground, and precesion leveled as they are set.

organicreefer, I consider this the same as your past post/observations. You know, all us lucky people out there. Just out of curosity, when do you graduate high school?

[organicreefer]

Originally posted by Ltspd


organicreefer, I consider this the same as your past post/observations. You know, all us lucky people out there. Just out of curosity, when do you graduate high school?

the same as in=right
if you think you know more than oceanic,island,and aga,about their own product,i wish you much more LUCK in the future.
dont try to justify it just cause you have it under youre tank

i consider youre post the same to,extremely un-informed.

GOOD LUCK!

[Ninong]

Originally posted by BigLar

When I setup my RR 180 AGA a few weeks ago, I put Styrofoam underneath it. I just recently read a post where the seams on someone’s 180 came apart and flooded his house. He attributed this to the Styrofoam underneath the tank.

Can you provide a link to that post? I would be interested in reading any details that he may have provided about his setup. Was it a recently set up new tank or one that had been up for years? It is possible that if it was a brand new tank, the tank may have been defective. We had a thread on this board concerning a brand new 180g Oceanic tank that blew apart within a week of being set up and I have seen a few threads on other boards of Oceanic and AGA tanks that came apart within weeks of being set up. Of the three or four threads that I remember along those lines, I don't believe styrofoam was used in the setups.

I wonder if his tank was truly level left-to-right and front-to-back. Did he say whether he was using a standard glass aquarium type stand with only perimeter support or a stand with a table top surface? I have a feeling that if the styrofoam was somehow the culprit, then he probably did a poor job of setting up his tank.

Let's dispose of the recommendations for acrylic tanks first just to get that out of the way in case anyone is reading this thread who has an acrylic tank. All acrylic tanks must be placed on a table top type stand that fully supports the entire bottom of the tank. The top surface of the stand must be perfectly smooth and level in all directions. Many people will place a foam pad of some sort on top of the stand's surface to level out any tiny imperfections in the surface before placing the tank on top of the foam pad.

All glass tanks must be supported around the perimeter of the tank--the tank's frame. Most standard stands that are designed for glass tanks do not have a full table top surface, just support for the tank's frame. You can place a glass tank on either type stand: table top surface or regular perimeter only type surface. It is extremely important that the frame of the tank be firmly supported evenly all around the tank. Some people do use styrofoam under the frame of a glass tank to smooth out any tiny imperfections in the stand's surface. You do not want to have a situation where the styrofoam, or anything else, causes the frame of the tank to not be in perfectly even contact all around the tank. In other words, if you were to place anything under the bottom of a glass tank that caused the frame to not bear the full load of the tank, you would have a problem. If you put styrofoam under a glass tank, it must also extend under the frame and the frame must bear the load of the tank, not the glass bottom of the tank.

I do not know of any manufacturers of either glass or acrylic tanks that actually recommend using styrofoam under their tanks. All of them simply say that the tanks must be placed on a smooth, level surface. In the case of acrylic tank manufacturers, they also say that it must fully support the entire bottom of the tank.

However, many hobby authors suggest using styrofoam under all tanks, glass and acrylic.

It is a good idea to place a piece of styrofoam under the tank to smooth out any irregularities in the stand. Make sure the tank on the stand is level in all directions. Failure to level the stand can result in leaks, cracks and one very wet room!--Delbeek & Sprung, The Reef Aquarium, Volume One, p. 99.

Even if the surface of your tank stand does appear absolutely flat, it helps to place a piece of foam, styrene, felt, or other firm cushioning under the tank's bottom as an extra precaution. The malleable material will be crushed into a form-fitting underpad. Your stand or support could be generally level or planar, yet not perfectly flat and equal in supporting all the edges of your aquarium. With glass tanks, nonlevel surfaces must be avoided at all costs. Acrylic is more forgiving, but should be treated with the same respect. Stresses caused by uneven support can cause warpage and leaks.--Robert Fenner, The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, p. 50

HTH,

Ninong

[Ironreef]

Funny =.001 I'm happy with 1/32 on my tanks. But I'm sure .001 is better. Thats closer than most machined aircraft parts. Some of those have a .004 +/-. Yeah I just prefer to shim my stand. That can be hard also. We know concrete and house builders use 1/8"+/- Usually more like 1/2" .