450 gallon is here!!!

BrianD · 01-01-2002, 10:35 AM

Thanks to LTSPD for referring me to this thread

Chicago, I am in the process of ordering a tank from IA. My original plans were a 120x30x30, but I will modify that if necessary slightly to insure it fits in my new house. I am building a house right now, and it is going to set in my basement. I am going to frame it into a wall, so the finish isn't important to me.

My problem is going to be getting it down into the basement. I already have the house framed, so lowering it into the basement isn't an option. Since your tank is similar in size, I wonder how much your tank weighed, and whether you think it can be moved my manpower.

Thanks for any other advice you may have,

Brian

**Ninong** · 01-01-2002, 12:26 PM

Hi Brian, welcome to Reefland!

You can see pics of Nathan & 9 of his friends unloading his Inter-American tank (122"x28"x28"x3/4" regular glass) here: http://www.padens.homestead.com/moving.html He estimates that his tank weighs about 1400 lbs.

Here is how John Rice moved a 900-lb acrylic tank into his basement: http://www.globaldialog.com/~jrice/c...ge/myhouse.htm

HTH,

Ninong

BrianD · 01-01-2002, 12:33 PM

Thanks for the welcome, Ninong.

I remember looking at those pics before. Scary stuff, isn't it

This is going to take some serious planning.

brian

batman · 01-02-2002, 08:31 AM

VERY BAD EXPERIENCE WITH InterAmerican.

I am too tired of this whole thing to go into details but lets just say that he lied to me about EVERY SINGLE thing that was going on with my tank. Mitch just does not care enough. He views scratches as no big deal and wonders why we get upset about it.

It took SIX MONTHS before I had the ability to use my tank!!!!

DO NOT DO A LAMINATED TANK!!!!!!!!! I am guessing that UV from the MH bulbs is causing the laminate to color up. It is showing as a bluish hue. The tank looks like it's a little oily. The sides are only .5" and it looks beautiful so I know it's the laminated front. Front glass is (2) x .5" laminated Starphire. TOTALLY NEGATES THE STARPHIRE ADVANTAGE. My old AGA 180 looked much better.

CREDIT CARD PURCHASES OUT OF THE COUNTRY ARE NOT PROTECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Visa does not offer any consumer protection(other than non-delivery of product) for purchases outside of the United States. Therefore you have ABSOLUTLY NO RECOURSE if Mitch pooch screws your tank. A lawsuit for a few thousand dollars is not worth it....

He did try to make amends for the screwed(6 scratches, each 12"+ long BETWEEN THE laminated sheets) up laminate job that I received so I can give him some credit but the laminate destabilizing like this is unacceptable. He sent me a new piece of front glass that was done right but I had to find an installer to put the glass in for me. He paid for everything.

FYI: 1.5" glass is totally unecessary IMO. It took the installers 45min with a sledgehammer to break enough of the front glass to begin to cut the laminate and remove it piece by piece.

My tank was a 375. 96x30x30.

ReefHog · 01-02-2002, 08:58 AM

I am following all these posts with intrest. I must say that with the exception of delivery time this is the first bad thing I have read about IA. It seems like IA is the only custom/large tank manufacturer/supplier I read about. Are there some other guys out there that make large glass tanks?

Has anyone had their IA aquarium edges ground and pollished and how did it turn out?

Rin · 01-02-2002, 01:54 PM

Batman's complaint about the 'oily' look of the laminated glass is not at all surprising. Anyone who wants to see this can take 2 pieces of cellophane and shine a flashlight through them onto a white wall. Be sure to move the pieces around a bit for maximum effect.

Simply said, is there a way to make a laminated tank that doesn't have the 'oily' look that Batman has on his? Somehow I don't really think so. Not if you shine MH's through it, anyway. It's the changes in density between the glass and the resin that holds the glass that causes this. Degradation (from heat and UV) of the resin may be intensifying the effect.

It's something that I certainly hadn't considered until Batman mentioned his. But it makes perfect sense.

Batman,

Can you move the MH's around a bit to get a feel for oily look? Sometimes the angle that the light shines through it makes a difference. Also, how long was it from the time you turned on the MH's that you first noticed the problem?

Ltspd · 01-02-2002, 03:05 PM

ReefHog, there are other custom tank makers out there but the stories are the same with them from what I have read. One thing that makes IA stand out is that they seem to be a considerable amount cheaper even after shipping is included. When I got mine I was comparing it to the cost of AGA's and Oceanics purchased locally. IA was cheaper, I got what I wanted, and had starphire glass.

As far as the lamination goes, its something I would have been concerned about even before I ordered one. Rin is correct, I dont see a way around it and what he stated makes perfect sense. Hate that Batman has had the problems but they may be the nature of the beast unfornutaly. Batman I hope things get straightened out on you tank, what a bummer.

As far as the edges, mine are ground but not polished. They dont look bad IMO. But, like I have stated before most people dont care what the tank itself looks like its whats inside.

npaden · 01-09-2002, 10:10 AM

I was just a little bit confused about batman's comments. I believe that he posted a fairly glowing review of his tank on arrival earlier this year on both reefland and reefcentral. It is amazing that the scratches between the laminated pieces suddenly showed up and were so bad that they required the entire front glass to be replaced.

I really am amazed that Mitch paid to have it replaced. I think that is going above and beyond to replace the glass after someone has already said it looks great.

Maybe there is more to the story.

I did have one scratch on the inside glass on my tank, but I figured that saving several thousand dollars was worth the scratch. I also just had our reef club meeting at my house and everyone was looking inside the tank and didn't even notice the scratch. Or at least they didn't mention it if they noticed it!

FWIW, Nathan

batman · 01-09-2002, 11:04 AM

Nathan: I am disappointed in the way you questioned my post. Instead of using comments like "It is amazing that the scratches between the laminated pieces suddenly showed up and were so bad that they required the entire front glass to be replaced" why don't you ask me to elaborate on the issue.

The scratches did not "suddenly" show up. I notified Mitch of this problem 2 weeks after I received the tank. It took him several months to get me a new piece of glass.
I reviewed the tank the day after I set it up but before I had installed any of my lighting. The scratches were not really visable until I installed lighting which was a few weeks later. I really just wanted to let everyone know that I had received the tank and the edges were excellent and the silicone was done very well. The scratches were bad, very bad. The glass installers could not believe that anyone could ship such a product. I believe they called it "gross negligence".
I have not commented publically up until this point because Mitch had tried to work it out and replaced the glass for me. I did not believe that he deserved bashing while he was trying to make amends. The tinted laminate is the straw that broke the camels back.

Many that know me are aware of this issue and my fight with this company. For starters check with Ninong. He should confirm a disheartened e-mail from me many months ago describing my situation. There are several others if you feel the need to verify.

There is always more to the story. That's why I said I really did not want to get into it. It's too much to do via this method. It needs to be live.

batman · 01-09-2002, 11:07 AM

RIN: I have shifted the MH a bit with no result. I am wondering if the effect is worse with the use of all HQI lighting. I am running 4x250W double ended 10K Ushio HQI with Icecap electronic ballasts.
I would like to try a standard MH setup for comparison.

Ltspd · 01-09-2002, 03:54 PM

batman, why would swapping from HQI to standard mh have anything to do with it? Do you have glass sheilds on your hqi's?

Chicago · 01-09-2002, 10:27 PM

does anybody else have a laminated front piece that has no problems?.....

batman when did you first notify mitch of the problem with laminated glass fronts.. i ask you this because i have not steup the tank. and therefore have not run any lights above it whichof course will eventually be mh.

when i ordered the tank from mithc we did have a conversation about the laminted front and he said it ws just ass strong,. he did not mention anything about tinting like you have in your post.

how long idi it take for the laminated glaass to start to change color..could you post pictures.?

Chicago · 01-09-2002, 10:31 PM

oh by the way now that i think about it when i was talking with mitch about the lamination process of the galss.. he told me that its the same as the front of a car...the windsheild..in otherwords athe cars we drive are laminated pieces of glass..

there were prvious threads about laminated glass months ago..i think it was at least 6 to 8 months ago..

has anyone recently spoken with mitch about the lamination process ect???

Chicago · 01-09-2002, 10:35 PM

batman..sorry to bring up a bad subject but please give us moire details...was the problem with the front of the glass eventually fixed by mitch sending a new front... inother words was the new front laminated also and then destabalized and is it still getting bluerer.??

mior6485 · 01-28-2002, 10:59 AM

hello
Does anyone know if inter-american pet supply has a website? I am planning for a 96 x 24 x 27 reef tank and love the pics of the starphire tanks. thank you

louis

batman · 01-28-2002, 11:27 AM

Chicago: The problem still exists. It bagan to show it's face when the cloudy water(50% new SD sand) started to dissapate. There was a bluish hue to the cloudy water. I had hoped that it was related to the particulate matter in suspended in the water column and decided to wait it out. It never cleared. Not only is there a bluish look there is also a "fuzzy" feeling you get. Everything is slightly distorted and "fuzzy" looking through the front glass.
If you look through the side glass the tank is beautiful and the colors are stunning. Through the front everything is somewhat "dull".

I am beyond pissed at this point and have really sort of given up on the hobby. It's too depressing. This tank cost me $2100 and I hate it. I have no motivation to continue. This was my dream tank and now all i can focus on is how ****ty it looks.

It would be the same as a car windshield. If you compare looking out the windshield to the real thing you will also notice a hue change.

I doubt anyone else would have the 2x.5" laminated glass in the front and only .5" glass for the sides. If you had laminated all around you would never realize what the potential could be.

LTSPD: I was only hoping. ): Yes, I do have glass shields since I use the PFO mini pendents.

Chicago · 02-15-2002, 09:06 PM

well i filed the tank again to see about this oily feeling..and i must say i did not notice it. what i did notcie is that once filled the tank when viewed close up the back has an oval shap..my large acrlyic tank had the same effect which i relate to the depth of the water as these tanks are 24 inches plus deep.

i have researched the issue of laminated and no one seems to have experiences with it..good or bad.

01-02-2002, 08:58 AM	#25
ReefHog Council Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Chicago Ill. Posts: 374	I am following all these posts with intrest. I must say that with the exception of delivery time this is the first bad thing I have read about IA. It seems like IA is the only custom/large tank manufacturer/supplier I read about. Are there some other guys out there that make large glass tanks? Has anyone had their IA aquarium edges ground and pollished and how did it turn out? __________________ Art Beanbag Game & Cornhole Bags

01-02-2002, 01:54 PM	#26
Rin Mayor Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Leesburg, GA Posts: 774	Batman's complaint about the 'oily' look of the laminated glass is not at all surprising. Anyone who wants to see this can take 2 pieces of cellophane and shine a flashlight through them onto a white wall. Be sure to move the pieces around a bit for maximum effect. Simply said, is there a way to make a laminated tank that doesn't have the 'oily' look that Batman has on his? Somehow I don't really think so. Not if you shine MH's through it, anyway. It's the changes in density between the glass and the resin that holds the glass that causes this. Degradation (from heat and UV) of the resin may be intensifying the effect. It's something that I certainly hadn't considered until Batman mentioned his. But it makes perfect sense. Batman, Can you move the MH's around a bit to get a feel for oily look? Sometimes the angle that the light shines through it makes a difference. Also, how long was it from the time you turned on the MH's that you first noticed the problem? __________________ -Todd

01-02-2002, 03:05 PM	#27
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	ReefHog, there are other custom tank makers out there but the stories are the same with them from what I have read. One thing that makes IA stand out is that they seem to be a considerable amount cheaper even after shipping is included. When I got mine I was comparing it to the cost of AGA's and Oceanics purchased locally. IA was cheaper, I got what I wanted, and had starphire glass. As far as the lamination goes, its something I would have been concerned about even before I ordered one. Rin is correct, I dont see a way around it and what he stated makes perfect sense. Hate that Batman has had the problems but they may be the nature of the beast unfornutaly. Batman I hope things get straightened out on you tank, what a bummer. As far as the edges, mine are ground but not polished. They dont look bad IMO. But, like I have stated before most people dont care what the tank itself looks like its whats inside. __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance. Last edited by Ltspd; 01-02-2002 at 03:08 PM.

01-09-2002, 10:10 AM	#28
npaden Citizen Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 198	I was just a little bit confused about batman's comments. I believe that he posted a fairly glowing review of his tank on arrival earlier this year on both reefland and reefcentral. It is amazing that the scratches between the laminated pieces suddenly showed up and were so bad that they required the entire front glass to be replaced. I really am amazed that Mitch paid to have it replaced. I think that is going above and beyond to replace the glass after someone has already said it looks great. Maybe there is more to the story. I did have one scratch on the inside glass on my tank, but I figured that saving several thousand dollars was worth the scratch. I also just had our reef club meeting at my house and everyone was looking inside the tank and didn't even notice the scratch. Or at least they didn't mention it if they noticed it! FWIW, Nathan __________________ Always get a 2nd opinion. (and a 3rd, 4th, etc...) Check out my Homepage

01-09-2002, 11:04 AM	#29
batman Just Moved In Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington, MA, USA Posts: 40	Nathan: I am disappointed in the way you questioned my post. Instead of using comments like "It is amazing that the scratches between the laminated pieces suddenly showed up and were so bad that they required the entire front glass to be replaced" why don't you ask me to elaborate on the issue. The scratches did not "suddenly" show up. I notified Mitch of this problem 2 weeks after I received the tank. It took him several months to get me a new piece of glass. I reviewed the tank the day after I set it up but before I had installed any of my lighting. The scratches were not really visable until I installed lighting which was a few weeks later. I really just wanted to let everyone know that I had received the tank and the edges were excellent and the silicone was done very well. The scratches were bad, very bad. The glass installers could not believe that anyone could ship such a product. I believe they called it "gross negligence". I have not commented publically up until this point because Mitch had tried to work it out and replaced the glass for me. I did not believe that he deserved bashing while he was trying to make amends. The tinted laminate is the straw that broke the camels back. Many that know me are aware of this issue and my fight with this company. For starters check with Ninong. He should confirm a disheartened e-mail from me many months ago describing my situation. There are several others if you feel the need to verify. There is always more to the story. That's why I said I really did not want to get into it. It's too much to do via this method. It needs to be live. Last edited by batman; 01-09-2002 at 11:10 AM.

01-01-2002, 10:35 AM	#21
BrianD New in Town Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2	Thanks to LTSPD for referring me to this thread Chicago, I am in the process of ordering a tank from IA. My original plans were a 120x30x30, but I will modify that if necessary slightly to insure it fits in my new house. I am building a house right now, and it is going to set in my basement. I am going to frame it into a wall, so the finish isn't important to me. My problem is going to be getting it down into the basement. I already have the house framed, so lowering it into the basement isn't an option. Since your tank is similar in size, I wonder how much your tank weighed, and whether you think it can be moved my manpower. Thanks for any other advice you may have, Brian

01-01-2002, 12:26 PM	#22
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 19,736	Hi Brian, welcome to Reefland! You can see pics of Nathan & 9 of his friends unloading his Inter-American tank (122"x28"x28"x3/4" regular glass) here: http://www.padens.homestead.com/moving.html He estimates that his tank weighs about 1400 lbs. Here is how John Rice moved a 900-lb acrylic tank into his basement: http://www.globaldialog.com/~jrice/c...ge/myhouse.htm HTH, Ninong

01-01-2002, 12:33 PM	#23
BrianD New in Town Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2	Thanks for the welcome, Ninong. I remember looking at those pics before. Scary stuff, isn't it This is going to take some serious planning. brian

01-02-2002, 08:31 AM	#24
batman Just Moved In Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington, MA, USA Posts: 40	VERY BAD EXPERIENCE WITH InterAmerican. I am too tired of this whole thing to go into details but lets just say that he lied to me about EVERY SINGLE thing that was going on with my tank. Mitch just does not care enough. He views scratches as no big deal and wonders why we get upset about it. It took SIX MONTHS before I had the ability to use my tank!!!! DO NOT DO A LAMINATED TANK!!!!!!!!! I am guessing that UV from the MH bulbs is causing the laminate to color up. It is showing as a bluish hue. The tank looks like it's a little oily. The sides are only .5" and it looks beautiful so I know it's the laminated front. Front glass is (2) x .5" laminated Starphire. TOTALLY NEGATES THE STARPHIRE ADVANTAGE. My old AGA 180 looked much better. CREDIT CARD PURCHASES OUT OF THE COUNTRY ARE NOT PROTECTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Visa does not offer any consumer protection(other than non-delivery of product) for purchases outside of the United States. Therefore you have ABSOLUTLY NO RECOURSE if Mitch pooch screws your tank. A lawsuit for a few thousand dollars is not worth it.... He did try to make amends for the screwed(6 scratches, each 12"+ long BETWEEN THE laminated sheets) up laminate job that I received so I can give him some credit but the laminate destabilizing like this is unacceptable. He sent me a new piece of front glass that was done right but I had to find an installer to put the glass in for me. He paid for everything. FYI: 1.5" glass is totally unecessary IMO. It took the installers 45min with a sledgehammer to break enough of the front glass to begin to cut the laminate and remove it piece by piece. My tank was a 375. 96x30x30.

01-09-2002, 11:07 AM	#30
batman Just Moved In Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington, MA, USA Posts: 40	RIN: I have shifted the MH a bit with no result. I am wondering if the effect is worse with the use of all HQI lighting. I am running 4x250W double ended 10K Ushio HQI with Icecap electronic ballasts. I would like to try a standard MH setup for comparison.

01-09-2002, 03:54 PM	#31
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	batman, why would swapping from HQI to standard mh have anything to do with it? Do you have glass sheilds on your hqi's? __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

01-09-2002, 10:27 PM	#32
Chicago Citizen Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: illinois, usa Posts: 195	does anybody else have a laminated front piece that has no problems?..... batman when did you first notify mitch of the problem with laminated glass fronts.. i ask you this because i have not steup the tank. and therefore have not run any lights above it whichof course will eventually be mh. when i ordered the tank from mithc we did have a conversation about the laminted front and he said it ws just ass strong,. he did not mention anything about tinting like you have in your post. how long idi it take for the laminated glaass to start to change color..could you post pictures.?

01-09-2002, 10:31 PM	#33
Chicago Citizen Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: illinois, usa Posts: 195	oh by the way now that i think about it when i was talking with mitch about the lamination process of the galss.. he told me that its the same as the front of a car...the windsheild..in otherwords athe cars we drive are laminated pieces of glass.. there were prvious threads about laminated glass months ago..i think it was at least 6 to 8 months ago.. has anyone recently spoken with mitch about the lamination process ect???

01-09-2002, 10:35 PM	#34
Chicago Citizen Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: illinois, usa Posts: 195	batman..sorry to bring up a bad subject but please give us moire details...was the problem with the front of the glass eventually fixed by mitch sending a new front... inother words was the new front laminated also and then destabalized and is it still getting bluerer.??

01-28-2002, 10:59 AM	#35
mior6485 New in Town Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1	hello Does anyone know if inter-american pet supply has a website? I am planning for a 96 x 24 x 27 reef tank and love the pics of the starphire tanks. thank you louis

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

01-28-2002, 11:27 AM	#36
batman Just Moved In Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington, MA, USA Posts: 40	Chicago: The problem still exists. It bagan to show it's face when the cloudy water(50% new SD sand) started to dissapate. There was a bluish hue to the cloudy water. I had hoped that it was related to the particulate matter in suspended in the water column and decided to wait it out. It never cleared. Not only is there a bluish look there is also a "fuzzy" feeling you get. Everything is slightly distorted and "fuzzy" looking through the front glass. If you look through the side glass the tank is beautiful and the colors are stunning. Through the front everything is somewhat "dull". I am beyond pissed at this point and have really sort of given up on the hobby. It's too depressing. This tank cost me $2100 and I hate it. I have no motivation to continue. This was my dream tank and now all i can focus on is how ****ty it looks. It would be the same as a car windshield. If you compare looking out the windshield to the real thing you will also notice a hue change. I doubt anyone else would have the 2x.5" laminated glass in the front and only .5" glass for the sides. If you had laminated all around you would never realize what the potential could be. LTSPD: I was only hoping. ): Yes, I do have glass shields since I use the PFO mini pendents.

02-15-2002, 09:06 PM	#37
Chicago Citizen Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: illinois, usa Posts: 195	well i filed the tank again to see about this oily feeling..and i must say i did not notice it. what i did notcie is that once filled the tank when viewed close up the back has an oval shap..my large acrlyic tank had the same effect which i relate to the depth of the water as these tanks are 24 inches plus deep. i have researched the issue of laminated and no one seems to have experiences with it..good or bad.

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