450 gallon is here!!!

[Chicago]

ninong and others that helped in my diecision a year ago...thanks..the tank finally arrived a couple of months ago.. you may remember me from about 6 to 8 mothns ago asking about starfire tanks...yes i did order mine from inter america in canada and they did a great job ...the tank is 31 wide, front to back and nine feet across. the back was made with three laminated pieces of glass..one mirror, one a light blue and the other a darker blue. the sides are a darker blue and the over flows are on the sides of the tank so when it is built into the wall all that will show is the tank and the over flows will be hiden. it is now sitting on a custom stand and next week now that the house is done the tank can now have the trim casing and rest of the dry wall encase it so that is is completely built in, the front will have four cabinet doors above . ...if some one tells me how to post pics i have a digital camera and would be glad to do so..

a word of caution to those ordering these tanks when giving tank dimensions be sure to instruct him on the viewable usable area...in other words take into account on a tank this size that they use up about 5 inches of bottom glass and wood and foam ect.n so what happens that instead of getting a 31 inche deep top-to bottom i got a 24 inch. mitch did ackowledge his mistacke and said he would build and deliver a new at cost ..i would fisrt have to get this one sold and then have it moved out and the new one moved in...alot of work to get that tank a little deeper...is it worth it..dont knnow..will probably just except the mistake and move on..have questions for you guys and will post them later ..just wanted to say thanks to you guys for your help moths ago. by the way ninong is your up and running?


by the way there was a thread months ago about laminated fronts the the galss is 2-1/2 laminated together..this glass is ultra clear even at one inch and you can not tell it is laminated except from the side...but there is one spot that you can see a small like airpocket that does show it is two pieces it is hard to explain...luckly it is the viewing area of the overflow and not the tank..structurally i dont think it will matter....

i will be filling the tank this week end and checking for water leaks..its been sitting on this stand for months begging me to get this thing started and transfer the tanks to this one...

need to get some info on pumps the the sump is inthe basement below and is a rubermaid 300 gallon tub..will have to push 14 feet of head to get to the tank above..

[Ninong]

Chicago,

Congratulations on your new tank... and your new house!

Yeah, you have to realize that the frame at the top and the bottom of the tank will take up some space. But a total of 31" from the very bottom of the frame to the top is really pretty good. My tank is 27.5" from the very bottom to the tippy top. Also, the bottom frame helps to conceal a lot of the deep sand bed. Of course, in your case, you will have yours built-in the wall so you could have concealed as much as you wanted.

I'm sure it will look great! Nine feet is a lot!

My tank is not set up yet--I had a lot of unresolved medical problems for the past 8 months. But, the good news is that the medical problems are not as serious as the doctors originally expected. I had some eye surgery on Dec. 4th. and it turned out pretty good. Not sure about my final eyesight but at least I don't have cancer like they expected. So I will be setting up my tank in the near future after all.

Regards,

Ninong

P.S. -- You forgot to say exactly what your front-to-back dimension is but I just calculated that if it is 108" long by 31" tall, then it has to be 31" front-to-back to equal 450-gallons. That's a terrific size.

P.P.S. -- I assume that he laminated two sheets of 12mm Starfire glass together, right? The sheets come 130" x 108" so it looks like he used the short dimension. I wonder if he could actually make a Starfire tank 130" long? Lamination gives you about a 1" thick glass and with proper perimeter bracing plus other top bracing and good bottom bracing, you might be able to do it. Did you inquire about anything longer than 9-feet? Anyway, 9-feet is still a lot.

[Chicago]

ninong.

glad to hear things are better for you..yo0u gave me some good advice when going over the specs for this monster which mitched labled the big blue meaniee. ..thanks again.. yes i khnow i shouldntt care about the 31 v. 24 inches but so much plannng went into this puppy that after your frends pickup truck hauls this crate across town and across the yard to the back paito door and then opens it up into your living room and then is rollled off on to two lifts, and slowwly moved across the room, uncrated and then slide off on too the stand to see the its not perfect well you get the idea


yes the front is two pieces and eventhough mitch did guarentee perfection there is a small spot by the front of the over flow ist about the size of a pea.. the bracing is four pieces on taop and is starfire..the bracing is position so that it does not interfer directly with the mh that will be above..the over flows are braced with two pieces of glass so that the overflow forms three chambers which two are going to be use as a sort of refugium. hard to explain will post pictures....

[Reef Engineer]

Hey guys - long time no talk - I've been busy with life!

I have a couple of questions for either of you if you don't mind. We're in the planning stages for doing some work in our house to add a couple of rooms and want to upgrade my 300 gal tank for a 900 gal tank (10'L x 4'W x 3'H). One of the reasons that Inter American (despite some bad stories I've heard) seemed nice was the fact that I could get the Starfire glass so that it would be ultra clear - especially given the fact that I'm looking at 1.5" thick glass as a minimum. How long did it take to receive the tank (from order placement to actual receipt of delivery) and how was the dialogue with them regarding any concerns you may have had?

I would like to know - and you don't have to answer if you feel it's too personal - how much the respective tanks cost and the shipping involved as well. Since I'm in San Diego, the delivery cost could be substantial.

Anyway, any answers you could provide would be very much appreciated and don't feel bad if you don't want to answer the $$ questions!

Thanks in advance,

Randy

[Ninong]

Hi Randy,

Wow! That would be a fantastic tank, especially if it turned out as nice as your 300-gal tank.

Let me try to answer some of your questions about Inter-American. First of all, my tank is a really small Starphire tank... only 120-gallons. It has some nice extras, it is a custom size (45"L x 23"W x 27.5"H), it cost me $550 plus $320 shipping. You can see pics here: http://www.reefland.com/cgi-bin/foru...&threadid=3153

Paul Christopher (Ltspd) ordered his custom Starphire tank just after I received mine. His is 60"L x 24"W x 27.5"H, 170-gal, and is otherwise identical to mine. He paid only $125 more than me and his shipping was cheaper than mine, so we ended up paying about the same total price even though his tank is larger and has two corner overflows. (Since then, Mitch has increased the price for the black indicoat mirror backing.) My estimated shipping was $225-$250 and it ended up as $320 once the actual crate was weighed by the trucking company. So I advised Paul and all other customers to have Mitch estimate the shipping upfront and then have him add that to the total bill so that he is paying the shipping on his end. In other words, a total delivered price that is agreed upon in advance. That way you don't have to deal with the trucking company billing you direct or any possible surprises on the amount.

Susan (SCETT316) decided to order a duplicate of Ltspd's tank. You can see her tank here: http://www.reefland.com/cgi-bin/foru...&threadid=1672

Nathan Paden (npaden) decided to order a large custom size tank from Mitch but he went with regular glass instead of Starphire. His tank is 122"L x 28"W x 28"H and you can see it here: http://www.reefland.com/cgi-bin/foru...&threadid=4214

There are about 25 others that I know of who ordered Starphire tanks from Mitch since I ordered mine. One of the reasons I know is because so many of them e-mailed me with questions before they placed their orders. I can provide you with the names of at least 15 more if you like.

Let me try to explain the benefits and the possible pitfalls of this adventure. The obvious benefit is that the price of the custom Starphire tank from Inter-American is usually much cheaper than a regular glass custom Oceanic tank of the same dimensions. Mitch charged me $550 vs. $1080 quoted by Oceanic... and the Oceanic tank would have been regular glass without the fancy backing. Once you add the shipping charges, the prices are closer. In Nathan's case, Mitch charged him much less than half the price he was quoted for a similar tank in the U.S. Nathan also ordered the steel stand that Mitch can have custom built in Calgary... it was very cheap and Nathan says it is really nice. Naturally he framed the stand with wood after setting up the tank. Oh, and Mitch made Nathan's custom built 6-ft long sump, too! One thing I do remember about Nathan's tank is that the total weight of his entire order (tank, stand, and sump crated) was 1880 lbs and the shipping was extremely cheap, in my mind anyway. Check with Nathan for the exact prices he paid for each item and the shipping charges... I would rather not post them here even though I happen to know what they are.

Let me see if I can explain the possible pitfalls without seeming alarmist on one hand or seeming to make light of them on the other. First of all, almost everyone says that their tank took longer than originally promised. In my case, I was told it would ship in three weeks from the date I placed my order and it actually shipped in 31 days (10 days late). To me that was no big deal. I really thought that three weeks was a very fast time quote since Oceanic had told me a minimum of 6 weeks for any size custom tank. I know that a few of the really large custom tanks have taken four or five weeks longer than promised and this has upset some of the customers. The problem is that Mitch has a tendency to quote faster times than he can live with based on his order backlog. I do remember one guy in the Bay Area who was quoted three weeks delivered, which I thought was impossible, and then when his tank arrived about a week late he was upset. His tank was actually delivered to him in the East Bay about 30 days after he first placed the order. I believe the deal in his case was that he needed it very fast or he was going to get a tank locally. So, my advice on how to handle this situation is that you tell yourself in advance that no matter what the time quote is, it will take at least two to three weeks longer.

One of the members on RC who ordered his custom Starphire tank from Mitch was not satisfied with the finish of the tank's front edges. His edges are not the same as mine and there was a miscommunication between him and Mitch as to what he wanted. If you look closely at the pics of my tank you can see the edges. In your case the edges won't matter since it will be a built-in tank. Also, I don't believe Mitch can do ground and polished edges on the really large tanks because he sends the glass out to have that done. The really large tanks do not have the rounded edges like mine.

In the case of Susan's tank, she ran into a problem in setting up her tank because one of the drain bulkheads was about 1" off from where it was supposed to be. She managed to work around that situation with some difficulty but it was a cause of frustration for her at the time. So that was a case where there was a slight variation in a simple detail that happened to affect her installation on her stand.

Contact Chicago for the details on his new tank but if I am reading his post correctly, it appears that he wanted 31" to show through the opening in his home's wall and Mitch assumed that he wanted the tank 31" tall overall. It may be more complicated than that but ask him about it.

All of these little complications point out the necessity of having Mitch draw up a detailed plan of the tank, including all dimensions, that he faxes to you prior to giving him the credit card number. This is what he did in my case and I assumed that it would be done in every case. But some people did not receive detailed plans... maybe because they did not request them like I did.

If I were you, I would look into having him make your tank as large as possible using the laminated Starphire glass. He uses 12mm Starphire that comes in sheets 130" x 108"... for large tanks he has to have two sheets laminated together to make 1" thick glass. Several of the people on the boards who contacted me about ordering did order large Starphire tanks with laminated glass and no one has had a problem or complaint about the laminated glass. Oh, another nice thing about Mitch is that he does perimeter bracing without charging extra for it... and he will do custom top bracing of any sort to accommodate your metal halides so that the lamps are not directly above a brace. I suggested to Paul that he get his 5-ft long tank with two glass top braces instead of a single one in the middle so that his three metal halides would all be above an open space and that worked out very well for him. Unfortunately, when Susan ordered a duplicate of Paul's tank it came the same way and her tank is lit with only two metal halides... so each lamp is directly over a glass brace. She should have ordered hers with a single center brace but that was a detail that was not considered at the time. My tank has Starphire glass for the top bracing and the perimeter bracing. This is what most people order... at least on the normal size tanks, not sure about the gigantic size tanks. There are all sorts of ways to brace a custom tank, so you might want to look into just exactly how long and how tall he could make a tank and still have the front glass Starphire. The Starphire glass is crystal clear and without the distortion you get when looking through acrylic at an angle.

My own experience with Mitch was that he was a pleasure to do business with and I had no real problems except for delays caused by the trucking company. He does seem like a 'character,' if you know what I mean. He is very friendly to talk to over the phone and will talk to you forever about tanks.

Ninong

[ReefHog]

Hey Chicago,Ninong,

I hope you don't mind me butting in here but I curious what made you decide on a glass aquarium over an acrylic. I did notice that Ninong mentioned the warping effect when looking at acrylic from an angle. Are there other reasons?

I ask because I will be upgrading my 125 FO to at least a 300 this upcomming spring. The things I will need to consider is that this will not be a reef, I only have eight feet of wall space, and the canopy or tank top will have to be tight (due to my Green Moray).

Not sure about the plumbing yet. My wife likes the look of acrylic especially with the beveled edges. A few guys around here recomended acrylic and pointed out a few positives about it. It can be drilled at any time to suit your changing plumbing needs, scratches can be fixed (even full of water), and they are very clear compared to glass with the green iron tint to them. (Starfire excluded I take it)

I've been keeping salt aquariums for well over 10 years and never owned an acrylic tank. So before I jump into a large aquarium, I want to get as many facts and opinions as posible to help with my decession.

[Ninong]

ReefHog,

Acrylic has many advantages over glass and one major disadvantage: it scratches easily and is more difficult to keep clean. "Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"

It's really a matter of personal preference.

Ninong

[Reef Engineer]

Ninong,

Thanks for great feedback regarding the tank and some of the history involved with others having ordered them. Nathan's tank is similar in size although I suspect the added width and depth I'm looking for would make the glass thickness jump into the 1.5" size rather than just one inch. At least that's what I was told locally that I would need as a minimum. Then again, who can you trust?

The tank actually is not planned to go into a wall so I would be very interested in the finished edges. I plan to either use the tank as a room divider or set it up against an exterior wall where the plumbing, pumps, etc could be run outside in an enclosed shed so that the noise/heat from the ballasts, pumps, chiller, etc would be away from the house. We're still working out the details.

I appreciate the concern regarding a detailed drawing but can add that it's still no guarantee for getting it right! I drew out very detailed plans on the exact dimension of my tank, hole placements, overflow box size and location, and bracing system to be used and I still received a tank that had overflows in the wrong spot, bracing 8" wider than what I specified, holes missing where pumps were planned, etc, etc. Once the tank is in the house, many people are reluctant to go through the hassle of sending it back, and wait for the arrival of another tank.

My main issue would be the time of delivery. Since I would have a contractor building me the addition, I would want to coordinate with the construction so that the tank could be easily brought into the house, leveled and placed, and have a custom stand built around it. I estimate that the tank will weigh somewhere in the 3000# range (purely an estimate) so will require mechanical assistance to get into the house. Having no walls up kinda/sorta makes that easier, ya know? I know of a local welder who could make me the stand frame and, to tell the truth, I was surprised at how thin the stand that Nathan had made was. I presume that was 2" box steel? I had planned on using a much thicker grade steel with I-beam spans. I guess I'm into overkill but the thing will be close to six tons when all is said and done and I want to make sure it's not going anywhere!

Anyway, I'll work out all the details that I want and contact Mitch to see what he tells me.

Thanks again for the great lead!

Randy

[Ltspd]

Chicago, Glad you got your tank and are for the most part pleased. I would like to say that mine is 27" high, and with a 5" DSB it is a real PITA to reach down into the tank, I am 6'1", so it may be a blessing. I thought I wouldnt reach in the tank that much, boy was I wrong. My right arm has now grown acustom to SW,

ReefEngineer, Just want to throw in a couple of comments. The edges on mine are ok, nothing to rave about, but still ok. So far no one but myself have ever even looked close enough at the edges to see if there are chips. Most people are more amazed at the tank contents as to the tank. I also will/have covered up all my trim with wood moulding so it wasnt a issue with me. I am pleased with my tank, but wish I had the knowledge I have now when I ordered the tank. I would have designed it diffrently, using no cross braces, drilled for closed loop, etc.

As most of us IA tank owners will tell you, add some time to Mitch;s estimate.

You are wise to get this sucker in place at the proper time of construction. I have 1 question, would you be better off having it built in place? Here are my thoughts as to the installation of the tank if it were built offsite and installed. I would block the frame just like exterior walls and leave out 4 blocks, those 4 blocks would be where the forks of the lift would sit under the tank and its base material (I might suggest alumimun plate or dbl 3/4" salt treated plywood with blue board foam) That way the tank can be brought into the house with a Lull or forklift and placed in place without trying to figure out how to slide or lower the tank with out the aide of a lift. The the left out blocks can be installed to fill the void. You could then go back and have it framed to match what you wish. It would also allow a sturdier base support structure under the tank (your in Calf right)

[Ninong]

Randy,

I think you will find that the only way to do a glass tank, Starphire or regular soda-lime glass, of those dimensions (120" x 48" x 36") is to have it built on-site.

You could have a custom acrylic tank of those dimensions built and shipped to you. Here is a place in Las Vegas that I have heard good things about: http://www.acrylicaquariums.com/aquarium.htm

Notice how much their price jumps when you get into 10-ft lengths. For example, you can get a 600-gal tank (96" x 48" x 30" x 3/4" thick) for only $3289. Then when you go to 720-gal (96" x 48" x 36" x 1" thick) it jumps to $5365. But wait, when you go to 900-gal (120" x 48" x 36" x 1.25" thick) it jumps up to $11,449.

See if anybody in your area is building on-site glass tanks and then find out if they can get Starphire, and, if so, what thickness. Starphire glass does not come in 1.5" thick sheets. It used to come in 19mm thickness but I'm not so sure if it still does or not... but the 19mm was much more expensive than the 12mm. As a rule of thumb, Starphire glass costs about 40% more than regular soda-lime glass of the same thickness. The only thing that Mitch can get is 12mm Starphire, which he has laminated to make 24mm.

I would be curious to know what Mitch tells you is the largest size he can make with his 12mm Starphire glass laminated together. That might be the way to go, provided you allow at least three months for construction and shipping. He could always let the tank just sit there for a couple of weeks before shipping it if it is finished too soon. And I'm sure he can get larger frame steel stands but you are probably better off having that made locally.

Please post what you find out as this is becoming interesting.

Ninong

[Ninong]

Randy,

Another thing you could consider would be to frame the tank's front edges:



Ninong

[Reef Engineer]

Paul,
It's funny that you stated that if you knew then what you knew now ... if I had a nickel for every time I've said that in this hobby! The good thing is that I've had the good fortune of seeing several tanks put together and several larger than the 300 gal that I had and even larger than the 900 gal I'm planning. I have several holes in mind for closed loop circulation, feeder holes (hanging nori), other pumps/gadgets, etc. Of course, I'll wish I had done a dozen things differently two months after I get it but that's half the fun - planning the next one.

Ninong,
I have already looked at several acrylic manufacturers, including acrylicaquariums, and simply will not go with an acrylic tank. You couldn't give one to me! With the coralline growth that I've come to expect and the difficulty in removing it without scratching it, it simply isn't worth the trouble. I think I spent more time removing scratches than watching my tank when I had a 40 gal set up. Definitely not for me.

I would actually prefer that the tank be made at my house so that I could coordinate better with the contractor, and see exactly what I'm getting and make changes at the last minute should I need to but that's not always practical with the places that I've checked ... and there are plenty of them, let me tell you! IA is just another that I'm investigating and, if I get the added benefit of being able to get the clearer glass, more power to me!

I'm still in the infancy stage of the planning since I need to first establish where the tank will be situated since that will impact greatly where I want return holes, overflows, etc but that hasn't stopped me from putting out feelers to the manufacturers to see about leadtime required, approximate costs, etc. The tank impacts the construction to the house as well since I need to incorporate adequate power source (using 4-20 amp breakers for this puppy), ventilation, heating/cooling ducts, etc. It's become a major ordeal, as I'm sure you can imagine!

Anyway, thanks for the information guys!

Randy

[ReefHog]

Originally posted by Ninong
ReefHog,

Acrylic has many advantages over glass and one major disadvantage: it scratches easily and is more difficult to keep clean. "Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"

It's really a matter of personal preference.

Ninong

Thanks for the reply Ninong,

I'm assuming by keeping it clean you mean that the tiniest piece of sediment caught in the magnet or brush could do much more damage to the acrylic compared with glass? So one would really have to pay attention to what they are doing.

Because it will not be a reef there will only be minimal lighting so I don't think I will have algae problems on the glass to the extent I would with a reef. Now I have to clean the front glass of my 120 reef every third day while on my 125 fowlr I only clean it once every two weeks.

Thanks for your opinion

[Ninong]

ReefHog,

I was leaning towards acrylic until I read the opinions of people like Randy who had previously owned acrylic tanks and swore that they would never own another acrylic tank.;;

Some people are happy with acrylic tanks... but there are quite a few who are not.

I believe that an acrylic tank with your proposed setup would not be as troublesome as a reef-tank.

Ninong

[Reef Engineer]

Originally posted by ReefHog
I'm assuming by keeping it clean you mean that the tiniest piece of sediment caught in the magnet or brush could do much more damage to the acrylic compared with glass? So one would really have to pay attention to what they are doing.

That would be a major understatement. A particle of sand between the magnet and acrylic surface is like a hot knife and a stick of butter. You'll carve it up quite easily. I have a 60 gal acrylic tank that is now used as my refugium/sump and you can hardly see inside it due to the scratches it has just from me cleaning the surface with the magnet. Definitely not for me!

Randy

[Ironreef]

well built quality acylic tanks are easy not to scratch. I've seen many. But you can't use magnets and you would probally need to get a little wet. glass are easier to clean But i would never own another glass tank unless i found a quality builder to build one in my house. I'm lucky there are some in my area but no $$ for the big one.

[Chicago]

just tested the tank last night for water leaks...none....

this tank looks great so far. wish i had the time right now to set up the whole thing and get it going. fyi with mitch get detailed specs and go over it with him a coule of times when you talk to him you get a guick conversation but do not assume he understands what you are lokking for...i went over things with him on the edging and other details at lenght and maybe you who aree ordering from him take that into consideration...

MAKE SURE TO GO OVER USABLE TANK AREA...VS. THE OVERALL TANK DEMINSIONS..I LOST ABOUT 5 INCHES OF HEIGHT BECAUSE OF NOT THITHINKING OF IT...

this happened eventhough i spoke with mitch no less than ten times...i spoke to him about it and he is willing to send me a new one..but i would have to sell this one and it would probably take to long..yes add about one extra month minimum to the delvery time..

alson if you are using a custom stand do not dirll the drain holes until the tank is in place as they may be a little off..

by the way they now have blue backs two types..its incrediuble mine is a mixture of the two blues..

the detail work on the edges is perfect as that was one of the tings that was discussed with him in detail.

just point out to him you want it perfect and nothing less will do..he may charge you an extra 50 for the edging but it is worth it.


ALSO NOTE THAT IF YOUR OVERFLOWS ARE ON THE SIDES OF THE TANK AND WILL BE BRACE AND YOU ARE USING A DRAKENED GLASS FOR THE OVERFLOWS TELL MITCH TO MATCH THE COLOR GALSS FOR THE BRACING ON THE OVERFLOW INSIDE...IT TOUCHES THE SIDES OF THE OVERFLOW AND ALLOWS IT TO BE SEEN FROM THE INSIDE OF THE TANK BECAUSE LIGHT ABOVE...HARD TO EXPLAIN..PICTURES WILL POINT THIS OUT BETTER...OPPS SORRY FOR THE CAPS..

by the way i have had both glass and acrlic tanks for twenty plus years wit bigger tanks i beleive glass is the only way to go because of the clean uyp time required on the front..

also it looks like i may have to start on the tank sooner just went in the basement where i am holeing and set up the old 200 and the top acrlyic on the top oopening just cracked to the overflow in the corner..


thing it will hold up?

[Chicago]

when i say dont drill the drain holes i an talking about the ones in the stand so that when you do drill them they will line op with the ones in tha tank...the bottom of these large tanks are actually made on two 3/4 inch plywood sheets.

also the bracing for the over flows were not to my exact dimensions but id turned out to be ok as they now will form a sort of in tank refugium..

i will post pics onse i find out how and you can then see what i am talking about...

[npaden]

Chicago,

Sounds like you are on the way buddy! Get us some pics!! You have plenty of fun times ahead of you getting the plumbing setup and all the rock curing and everything. It's a new experience all over again.

Randy,

Sounds like an awesome setup! I would just call Mitch and talk to him about the options and rough estimates. Shipping on my 1,880 lb crate to Texas actually ended up costing Mitch just over $1,000. I actually only paid $600 based on his original quote, and he stuck with it and he ate the extra shipping. (He had underestimated the weight)

Using regular glass saved me around 50% of the cost of the tank itself, but I was able to get by with 3/4" glass instead of laminated 1" starphire. I would imagine they could laminate 3 sheets of 1/2" starphire to get you to your 1.5" but I would also guess that would cost some big $$. Not sure how thick regular glass sheets come in though.

I haven't seriously looked into it, but have actually had some fleeting thoughts of about a 1,200 gallon L shaped tank that would have to be built on site at my house. I think that you can get with a tank designer (or maybe being an engineer you can do some of the calculations yourself) and run various options on you sizes you might be suprised at how different variations could end up getting you to a 1" glass tolerance level. For instance on my tank if I would have gone much taller I would have needed to go up to 1" glass, but I could have gone nearly 1' wider and still been okay with the 3/4" glass. If you went with 30" tall instead of 36" you might save some serious $$ on glass.

Another option you might consider is a built in poured cement tank with glass viewing panes. I realize that many of these tanks are beastly and not very nice to look at, but I really think if they were planned out correctly and considerable thought was given to the look of the final product they could look decent. Poured cement could also be used for the stand and with proper reinforcement would be much stronger than a steel stand for your earthquake country. If you are using a dsb you could still use 30" tall glass and just hide the sand with the cement.

Oh well, just a few inputs from someone with way to much imagination and not near enough $$ to pull it off. One thing that I have learned from this tank is to utilize recirculation loops for your water movement. I was originally set up into making sure I had huge drains for all the water flow I was going to have, but should have used 2" intakes for a recirc loop and 1.5" drains instead of the other way around.

[Reef Engineer]

npaden,

Thanks for the info. I've actually been looking at doing the concrete thing as well but my wife is really against it since it would be a blackeye if we ever decide to sell the house. Personally, I tell her WE live in it now so why the heck should I care what some other yahoo who might buy it later on has to think. Whatever.

I'm still doing the research on the tank but have a few things to overcome simply because I live in earthquake country. If I pour a concrete tank that's secured to the foundation, it would be subject to the same shaking & baking as the house and just a small crack in the tank structure could have devastating effect. (Can you spell flood? ) Having a glass viewing panel would be risky in this respect because the viewing panel would behave in much the same way as a glass window pane - being forced to flex and twist while held in place and might shatter. In this respect, an acylic viewing panel would probably be better suited but I really don't like acrylic. What to do, what to do! If I were to go concrete, though, you can bet that the tank would be larger than the 900 I'm planning!

I've spoken to several people already and I've been told 1", 1.25", and 1.5" on the tank. I really don't want to go anything less than 36" high since many of my corals currently hit the water surface on a 24" tank. Another 6" would probably only buy me a year or so before I'm in the same boat. The extra width (4') is a minimum for me because I hate having to break corals because they're about to hit the glass surface. I want to leave a 6" "safety zone" from any of them. Anything wider than 4' would require me to become an orangutan in order to do anything on the tank.

Right now, I'm working with the spouse in trying to determine exactly how large we can make the addition and how the tank will be situated so that I can draw up exactly what I want and send it to Mitch. I have a pretty good idea of what I want and expect to have it built rather than letting them tell me what they can build which is how I did my last tank. Never again!

Anyway, thanks again!

Randy