Will this pump work ok for closed loop

[wastedincome420]

I was going to use an Amp master 3000 for my closed loop on my 105g
tank. But I want to hear your thoughts on using a Iwaki MD-70RLT;)
I want it to run atleast a strong spray bar near the surface(would also like to run a SS or two if poss. )
What ya think??

[scubadude]

Hmmm...well you need to match the pump volume output with the volume of the SS and/or spraybar and take into consideration head....Its hard to just tell you what someone thinks.....Is there a certain amount of flowrate you want in your tank? You should describe in detail exactly what items you want, how you want to plumb them, what pumps you want to use etc etc....If you want to get 10x turnover rate or 20x turnover rate? are you using a refugium? how is your sump gonna be designed? are you gonna tap into the pumps for your Skimmer and other devices, like a manifold? There are too many variables at play and not enough explanation from you on what it is you exactly want to accomplish. If you want to see some detail of my setup in my 220g closed loop and other plumbing check this thread out.

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...threadid=39690

FWIW I think the AM3000 is one of the most advanced and effecient pumps on the market!

[organicreefer]

wasted income,i sold my iwaki's ,a 70 and 100,they are ENERGY HOGS!
get the ampmaster it will pay for itself in energy savings...its also quieter imo

[wastedincome420]

Thanks you guys;)


Organicreefer: I think that you have talked me out using an Iwaki for my closed loop(or anything else on my tank). I want a pump that is quiet and not a energy pig.

Ampmaster 3000 seems to be the way!!


Scubadude: I have allready looked at your pics before this post You did an awesome job;)
My plan is somewhat like yours. I will drill two holes in the back of the tank (how high up and haow far a part ) Then I will install 2 1 1/2" bulkhead fitting and Tee them together and run 1 1/2" flex down onto the stand and into the CL pump. Then run 1 1/2" flex out of the pump. Now I'm not sure how I want to split that line into to 3. 1 line going to spray-bar 2 lines going to SS's. That all I will run of that pump. I will have two 1" bulkhead near the top corners of the tank for over-flow into sump and refugium. One 1' line will go straight to the sump and the other will go to the refugium with a tee in that line spliting it to the sump( my goal with this is too only allow bout 50GPH into the refugium and all other x-tra flow will go into the sump)
The ref. will overflow into a line going to the last compartment of the sump (inorder to bypass the skimmer) Does this all sound right??
Oh ya Scubadude!! It looks like your spray bar line comes up from the bottom of you tank then 90's over to the spray-bar Did I see it right?? Hows that working??

thanks again

[scubadude]

Originally posted by wastedincome420

Scubadude: I have allready looked at your pics before this post You did an awesome job;)

Thank you sir!

My plan is somewhat like yours. I will drill two holes in the back of the tank (how high up and haow far a part )

Well I have a 4-6" DSB so I put both of the intakes halfway between the top of the SB and the top of the tank...My tank is 30" high, minus 6" for the SB equals 24" so 12" above my SB and 12" under the top of the tank...or 18" from the bottom of the tank. The idea here is to equalize your inputs dont put them to close to the SB or you might be sucking sand into the pumps and dont put them to near the top or it may start sucking air bubbles...And as far as spacing them away from each other length wise, I used the same concept because I had the Overflow box in one corner, you dont want to be competing w/other outputs or inputs.

Then I will install 2 1 1/2" bulkhead fitting and Tee them together and run 1 1/2" flex down onto the stand and into the CL pump. Then run 1 1/2" flex out of the pump. Now I'm not sure how I want to split that line into to 3. 1 line going to spray-bar 2 lines going to SS's. That all I will run of that pump.

Ok lets talk about this for a second....You could run all three of them off of the pump, and if you do so then definately go with a manifold which LTSPD can probably help you with that (im not up to par with them) But I would strongly advise you against running all 3 of them if you want both of the SS's to be the 1" models.

I will have two 1" bulkhead near the top corners of the tank for over-flow into sump and refugium. One 1' line will go straight to the sump and the other will go to the refugium with a tee in that line spliting it to the sump( my goal with this is too only allow bout 50GPH into the refugium and all other x-tra flow will go into the sump)
The ref. will overflow into a line going to the last compartment of the sump (inorder to bypass the skimmer) Does this all sound right??

Now this part is sounding VERY interesting....I like this....especially how you are just using the bulkheads for overflows...no boxes correct? The only part that you forgot to mention is the pump for the sump and the return for the sump...is it just gonna be a couple of pieces of pipe shooting the output? Hows that gonna work? where is the return gonna be routed from the sump? to another spraybar?

Oh ya Scubadude!! It looks like your spray bar line comes up from the bottom of you tank then 90's over to the spray-bar Did I see it right?? Hows that working??

Yes you are correct...my AM2100 is running full throttle through the sump refugium (with baffles of course to slow down the flow in the refugium area, then its pumped through the bottome of the tank to the spraybar.

I do like your thought planning....just take your time...and use long sweep elbows instead of a drastic turn on the regular 90 degrees....this will reduce your head alot. and mount a mouse pad under the AM3000 for vibration purposes......I also strongly recommend calling up dolphin (forgot the main dudes name) and seaswirl (Ed is the guy i believe) and tell them what you are planning to do and ask them pointers. Paul (LTSPD) was a great help with me on plumbing my tank....if you still feel like you are having problems email me and ask me for my phone number and I would be more than happy to discuss it on the phone w/ya....sumtimes talking over the phone on certain issues can be more helpful....or we could even do an ICQ chat if you wanted. Keep plugging away! Cant wait to see the outcome of this.

[wastedincome420]

ScubaDude You have given me a lil' ego boost, just by now knowing I'm on the right trac.;)

I wasn't planning on using the 1" SS's. I was thinking of 1/2" or 3/4".
Maybe two 1/2" SS w/ a 1" or 1 1/2" spray-bar on the one AMP3000.

Now for the over-flow.......You got it, NO boxes, only 1" BH fittings with intake screens;) For returning water to the tank i will be using 2 magnetic drive pumps(The brand pump is a "Silentflo-5000", They are pumps used in high-end hottubs. These pump are so quiet you can not tell if they are on or off.) They have 3/4" in/out lets. I will use "loc-line"s for these returns. I figure I'll get bout 500-600GPH with these.
Maybe I should contact people at SS and dolphin to see what they think;)
Now on with some questions about things i havent thought of yet

[scubadude]

Originally posted by wastedincome420
ScubaDude You have given me a lil' ego boost, just by now knowing I'm on the right trac.;)

Well thats what its all about bud, encouraging others!

I wasn't planning on using the 1" SS's. I was thinking of 1/2" or 3/4".
Maybe two 1/2" SS w/ a 1" or 1 1/2" spray-bar on the one AMP3000.

Ok then, there should be No problem with your original intentions....However im not sure if you had intended to use a manifold or not, but I do recommend it...I will try and get LTSPD in here and he can give some great advice too and is knowledgable w/manifolds

Now for the over-flow.......You got it, NO boxes, only 1" BH fittings with intake screens;) For returning water to the tank i will be using 2 magnetic drive pumps(The brand pump is a "Silentflo-5000", They are pumps used in high-end hottubs.

Careful with some of these jacuzzi pumps...they are great as long as no metal parts come into contact w/the saltwater (corrosion and animal health problems). I have a buddy who has been using a Jacuzzi pump on his 200g tank for over 3 yrs w/out any probs though

These pump are so quiet you can not tell if they are on or off.) They have 3/4" in/out lets. I will use "loc-line"s for these returns. I figure I'll get bout 500-600GPH with these.
Maybe I should contact people at SS and dolphin to see what they think;)
Now on with some questions about things i havent thought of yet

Sounds good!....the plan thickens

[organicreefer]

if youre going to use the ampmaster(and you should)you should try not to reduce any of youre plumbing below 1"imo...go with a 1" sea swirl and use 1 1/2 ich plumbing everywhere else.
as far as the jacuzzi pumps...i myself would be a little leary as to whether they can withstand saltwater...

[wastedincome420]

If someone could drag LTSPD in here that would be great;)

Organicreefer: I will be using an am3000 for my CL. Since you have advised against the use of a Iwaki pump. As for using 1" SS, i heard that the 1" version can be bit on the noisy side plus if I use two 1" SS and a spray bar I dont think I would have good enough flow from all of em'

I think I will need to do some thinking about a manifold design.

As far as the use of the hot tub pumps. I have ben using one on my 58g for bout six months and have not had any problems They are very good pumps and can withstand high chlorine,Ozone,etc. I do believe that the impeller on it is made from titanium. I will have to take pic. of it fo you to see. They look exactly like a "Velocity" pump.

Keep the tips and ideas coming

[organicreefer]

wasted,reducing the plumbing below 1" is where you are going to lose flow,not the other way around,even , no especially if you split, its important not to reduce youre plumbing on an ampmaster below 1 1/2 to acheive max flow rates.the 1" ers arent as noisy as some people claim...they are noisier than the older ones,i have a three + year old 1" er thats quieter than the two new 1"ers i just bought ,but they arent that loud,you cant really here them over the water trickle from surface motion,pumps,ballasts ,fans ,and whatever other equipment you have;)
personally ,i would skip the spray bar,and get two 1"sea swirls for youre closed loop.that will give you plenty of surface aggitation.you said you would have two return pumps?how bout one with flex to spot the current where you need extra and one a spray bar behind the rocks.just some thoughts you have what sounds like a good idea of what you want to do,but ill second scubas suggestion take youre time ,its fun ,and it will pay off.

[organicreefer]

or at least get the 3/4 and run 1 1/2 all the way into them...you probly wouldnt lose too much with that configuration..

[wastedincome420]

A point that I may have left out is that I want to end up with no power heads in my tank (I will end up with one for my skimmer).
I did think about a spray bar down lown behind the LR....... But A: what about "back siphon" when power goes out?? B:Will it cause trouble with the CL intakes??
I guess that using 3/4" SS and use 1 1/2" to em' would be good idea, thanks Organicreefer;) The only downside I see bout that is trying to fit all that 1 1/2" PVC behind the tank
With your guys support I fell as though I have a decent "base" plan and would love any thoughts you have to share
Also figured I would give you guys the tank dimensions.
105g Oceanic tank (not reef ready)
60" long
18" wide
24" tall (I will have a 4-6" DSB)

PS: My goal is to be able to keep a wide range of corals. (shrooms-acro-clams-etc) high flow/light up top lower flow/light down low

PS: This has GOT to be the BEST board with the most help EVER

[organicreefer]

i was just doing a little shopping ,and i happen to notice that jeffs exotic has the 3/4 sea swirls for 135 right now....so if youre sure thats the way you want to go ,now would be a good time;)

as far as the one and a half inch behind the tank ,i was worried about that too before i set my tank up ...it turned out to be a non issue,youre gonna need at least 3 1/2 inches to mount the seaswirls anyway.
there is no back syphon to worry about either ..i asked the same question i think before i set mine up ....its a closed loop;)

[Ltspd]

Removed per my request.

[organicreefer]

ltspd,i think you still lose flow if you reduce the plumbing at the manifold,regardless of whether it adds up the same or not....from the dolphin website:


"Try to keep your exhaust lines plumbed properly for efficiency and performance. This is accomplished by not reducing piping diameter, using sweep fittings or flexible PVC pipe whenever possible, And when plumbing return lines reduce pipe at the last possible point, not at a junction or directly out of the pump. Use ball valves with large openings to direct the flow of water properly. Use accessories (UV sterilizers, Skimmers, Canisters) with plumbing sizes that are the same size or larger than the pump's outlet. ( This will also maximize performance on a centrifugal pump) "

it says not to reduce at a junction,reduce at the last possible point.does it "adding up" the same mean that technically its not reduced????

[wastedincome420]

Thanks Ltspd for juming in here;)
You pointed out some good tips.

Organic. Thanks for pointing me to the sale on 3/4" SS. I wish had the $$ to buy em' now, but I'll have to wait

Here's a good question for ya;)
How do you feel about using "drain fittings" ?? They are nice because they "sweep" much more and they make all sorts of different types of "Y's" "Tee's" etc. But, A: They aren't meant for high flow with pressure, right? B: They dont have a very deep socket to glue into What do ya think??
Also I dont understand why they sell a manifold for the am3000 that thakes the 1 1/2" outlet and reduces it to 5 1/2" outlets.

Another thing. My Oceanic tank has a center glass brace. Should/Can I mount the SS there????

[scubadude]

Originally posted by wastedincome420

Another thing. My Oceanic tank has a center glass brace. Should/Can I mount the SS there????

I will chime back in on this part.....yes you can...but you will have to call Ed at SeaSwirl and have him make you a bracket....just tell him you want to mount it on the centerbrace of your tank...I had 2 of these made for me cuz I have eurobracing (perimeter bracing) on my tank...you will be using the same brackets i am...atleast for the centerbrace mount. Each bracket will cost you like 15bux ea. if i remember correct

[organicreefer]

wasted ,the drain fitiings are an excellent idea imo,exactly because of the reason you point out.the are designed to drain ,and since there desigend to work with no pressure;) they do "flow" better imo.that and some parts are just easierr to find for example street eel to make a durso.i useed a combination of black abs drain pipe and spaflex to plumb my tank.also ,they very easily stand the e"pressure"in fish tank plumbing,its open ended;) its the way to go ,imo

[wastedincome420]

Scubadude, I want you to "chime" in on everything;) Your settup is bout the closest thing to what I want as I've seen (does that sound right?)


Organic, Thanks for the opinion I want to make sure that you know I'm talking about using the drain fittings on the "return" side an am3000. Also I dont understand what you mean by "its open endeed"???

Now I was thinking......(which cant be good ) I really like the way Scubadude has his spray-bar plumbed (coming up from the bottom of the tank) and wanted to do the same. But, while thinking of ways to design a manifold , I thought of having a bulkhead in the center where I want the bar to be, and on the inside have a regular "Tee" and the bar come from both sides (you still with me here ?) If it goes this way then I will have to havea 90 on the back of the Bulkhead going down to the pump and manifold. I would want to try and use a regular street 90(but that would make a sharp angle ) What do ya all think?? Would really loose that much flow??

[organicreefer]

ltspd,the way i read it ,it says you will lose flow....i dont know im no plumbing expert,and i agree it sounds logical if all the combined diameters =at least 1 1/2 it should be alright,but it clearly says not to reduce at a junction,which implies at least two pipes..it also says not to reduce below 1" on their website...again maybe if it adds up it adds up ,but i dont know. i reduced at the last possible point and didnt go below 1" .....jmo