Breaking Siphyon

Ltspd · 02-10-2002, 11:39 AM

I need some help in breaking the siphyon on my closed loop system so I can add the seaswirls and do some re-configuring.

All my closed loop is do via pipes over the back of the tank, the tank is not drilled. I will be removing the pipes marked in red and keeping the pipes marked in green. The red pipes are the current return and the green is the drain. I can break siphyon on the red pipes by shutting everything down and simply drilling a hole in the pipes. Now the problem is the drain side which I am keeping. I am pretty sure it will still want to drain regardless of the holes in the return line. I need to keep from this happening.

Any suggestions?

Ironreef · 02-10-2002, 12:23 PM

I'm wondering why? If it's a cloosed loop you won't drain your tank.. unless the pump itself leaks. It all will remain in the plumbing. But fwiw if you keep just one input up high if it's conncected to all the plumbing it should break siphon= just one flex pipe keep hihger up and use seaswilrs on the rest. Or you can just use quality check valves. Use clear one sure they can fail but so can antisiphon holes. But I use a flex nozzel and a check valve for double protection and if all failed my sump still can handle most of the water. But imo putting antisiphon holes on the seaswirls will void the warrenty. And the plumbing is to high to drill= water will splash all over the top. JME

Ltspd · 02-10-2002, 12:25 PM

Iron, I will be redoing all the plumbing on the closed loop so I got to disconnect it all to move it or remove it. I will still have to move the drain pipes, just move them to the center instead of the ends. What I may do is drill a hole in them in the 90 and then come back and tap it and put a removable plug in it. That way in the future if I have to do it again I can do it easier (if there is such a thing in this hobby)

Ironreef · 02-10-2002, 01:30 PM

I see you just want to break siphon for the maintance?? Maybe i just do n't understand? Put a plug on the drain? FWIW I use ball valves on all my drains just for maintance purposes. i always run them all the way opens but ime ballvaves are always good . Sounds like you just want to redue your plumbing and only use seaswirls?

wastedincome420 · 02-10-2002, 04:55 PM

How ya making out Paul,??
I would use a cap with a nub of pipe on it and insert it inthe suction side of the line. that should stop any water from going into the suction line.
Let us know how it all went

Mark

**golfish** · 02-10-2002, 05:16 PM

Yeah, Mark got to it before me. If you can fit a cap over the end of the pipes then that would be best.

Ltspd · 02-10-2002, 07:26 PM

Well I got the overflow returns done today. Man what a job, I almost hate coraline. It was a bear to get the bulkheads and stuff unscrewed with all the coraline coverage. I ended up using clear tubing to come over the overflow box instead of the loc-line. I was afraid the loc line would spring a leak, of corse at a time when I am not at home. Looks OK, better than the old contraption.

I got to get all my fittings together for the closed loop side of this project along with the 3rd seaswirl. If I can get the lines off without a lot of water reduction it may not be as bad as todays phase. I will have most of it glued up before I start so it will speed things up. I will have to use a 90 on both the drain and return but thats the breaks.

Glad I didnt get the 1" seaswirls. It was a TIGHT fit to get the 3/4's in there. Along with the fact I have to move both drains now to make room for the ones on the side.

wastedincome420 · 02-10-2002, 07:37 PM

Well I'm glad to hear that things didnt go all that bad for ya Paul

Did you take any pics of todays project?? So you like the new Seaswirl??
Mark

Ltspd · 02-10-2002, 07:56 PM

Other than the cuts on my hands from the coraline things went OK. I still need to shorten 1 pc of the clear tubing about 3", but I will do that at the next w/c.

I like what I see of the seaswirls but I wont have them in operation for a few weeks. I need to lengthen them more into the water, and they were already 1/2" longer than normal. I may do that with the loc-line.

Biggest thing will be the removal of the lines inside the rock work. That will take some time being careful to not damage and corals and upset too many fish in the process.

Here is a shot of today's work. Golfish, there is one of the frags I got from you.

wastedincome420 · 02-10-2002, 08:04 PM

Looks good so far paul

After all Rome (& reefs) wern't built in a day

**golfish** · 02-10-2002, 08:24 PM

Paul, You don't think it might get a little too hot for the clear tubing ? it looks a little close in the picture.

Quote:

I need to lengthen them more into the water, and they were already 1/2" longer than normal. I may do that with the loc-line.

You can't use the flare nozzels pointing down? My instructions say not to lengthen with loc-line. The only problem I can see using loc-line would be if it was to get stuck or hit something that would keep the motor from working freely. What do you think?

How do you plan to pipe the SS's? I used a small section of clear tubing. I wanted to hard pipe it but there wasn't enough room for me to do that. Then I started to think about removing them for cleaning and other maint and decided the clear tubing would make then easier to remove. I wish I had more room back there for a union of some kind.

Glad to see the frags are doing good.

Ltspd · 02-10-2002, 08:40 PM

I dont think the heat will be a problem. The shield should protect it, but I will keep a eye on it.

So you cant add loc line to it? I may give Ed a call and ask him what he thinks. I will make sure they dont interfer with things in their rotation.

So what do you think, should they be Nsysnc? They wont exactly be that way with them being close to the overflows on the side but I can get them close.

**golfish** · 02-10-2002, 08:56 PM

Paul,
I really don't see a problem adding loc-line. It does say not to in my instructions but I'm thinking that's so they don't hit anything causing the motor to bind.

Quote:

So what do you think, should they be Nsysnc? They wont exactly be that way with them being close to the overflows on the side but I can get them close.

That's something I really never thought about. Do you think the motors will be that consistent?

wastedincome420 · 02-10-2002, 09:01 PM

huh that is a good point bout them being nsysnc.
I would think that if both brand new,same size, and aimed/started at the same time they should be really close.
I think that would be a kool "wave" feature

organicreefer · 02-10-2002, 10:03 PM

yeah it says not to use loc-linebecause the extra pressure could cause the whole outlet to blow off. that said,i extended mine deeper in the water today,and it works great.i think the instructions might say something about not doing that too.
as for them being "nsync",mine have been like justin and jc since i setup a couple months ago,and its tearin' up my heart

Ironreef · 02-11-2002, 12:20 AM

yup on pg3. 2-3rd paragraph =you will run the risk of the 90 degree elbow blowing off the osciliating pipe due to excessive weight at the end of the pipe. Not to mention extra drag or wear on the motor. And we know how weak the motors are= thats why they put bigger ones on. IMO i wouldn't risk adding more weigth to a cheap plastic motor which has had problems in the past. They cost to much to replace

organicreefer · 02-11-2002, 12:27 AM

thanks for the reassurance ironreef

SCUBA!did you get advice from sea swirl before you mod. youres?i just did mine today,a little different than youres,but not much.
i guess it would depend how much you extend=dont make it too long and reduce and youll probly be ok??i think.i only extended mine about 1" and i dont even have the reducer nozzle thing on the output,so im sure im fine,as for locline,i wouldnt

*wait a minute im yelling for scuba but i think hes in hava-i

Ironreef · 02-11-2002, 01:40 AM

I dunno if an inch will matter much but I've seen pic with 4-5" of locline. it maynot matter but they still had problems with the motors they are cheap plastic gears .... well I belive they are. But I've had no problems with mine 1" seaswirl new motor

Ltspd · 02-11-2002, 05:57 AM

Well I originally was going to add a sch80 coupling and a stub pc of pipe ( I emailed SS about this) but Slowes home improvment didnt have 1" sch 80 couplings, they had every other size

I need to place a order from Mcmaster and I may order them there.

I agree with Mark, I think the issue is them hitting something, but then mine is just a slide on concection.

We'll see what SeaSwirls says to my email.

organicreefer · 02-11-2002, 08:04 AM

ltspd,to connect to the outlet you need 1 1/4 couplings

02-10-2002, 11:39 AM	#1
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	Breaking Siphyon I need some help in breaking the siphyon on my closed loop system so I can add the seaswirls and do some re-configuring. All my closed loop is do via pipes over the back of the tank, the tank is not drilled. I will be removing the pipes marked in red and keeping the pipes marked in green. The red pipes are the current return and the green is the drain. I can break siphyon on the red pipes by shutting everything down and simply drilling a hole in the pipes. Now the problem is the drain side which I am keeping. I am pretty sure it will still want to drain regardless of the holes in the return line. I need to keep from this happening. Any suggestions? __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

02-10-2002, 12:25 PM	#3
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	Iron, I will be redoing all the plumbing on the closed loop so I got to disconnect it all to move it or remove it. I will still have to move the drain pipes, just move them to the center instead of the ends. What I may do is drill a hole in them in the 90 and then come back and tap it and put a removable plug in it. That way in the future if I have to do it again I can do it easier (if there is such a thing in this hobby) __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

02-10-2002, 07:26 PM	#7
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	Well I got the overflow returns done today. Man what a job, I almost hate coraline. It was a bear to get the bulkheads and stuff unscrewed with all the coraline coverage. I ended up using clear tubing to come over the overflow box instead of the loc-line. I was afraid the loc line would spring a leak, of corse at a time when I am not at home. Looks OK, better than the old contraption. I got to get all my fittings together for the closed loop side of this project along with the 3rd seaswirl. If I can get the lines off without a lot of water reduction it may not be as bad as todays phase. I will have most of it glued up before I start so it will speed things up. I will have to use a 90 on both the drain and return but thats the breaks. Glad I didnt get the 1" seaswirls. It was a TIGHT fit to get the 3/4's in there. Along with the fact I have to move both drains now to make room for the ones on the side. __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

02-10-2002, 07:56 PM	#9
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	Other than the cuts on my hands from the coraline things went OK. I still need to shorten 1 pc of the clear tubing about 3", but I will do that at the next w/c. I like what I see of the seaswirls but I wont have them in operation for a few weeks. I need to lengthen them more into the water, and they were already 1/2" longer than normal. I may do that with the loc-line. Biggest thing will be the removal of the lines inside the rock work. That will take some time being careful to not damage and corals and upset too many fish in the process. Here is a shot of today's work. Golfish, there is one of the frags I got from you. __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

02-10-2002, 08:40 PM	#12
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	I dont think the heat will be a problem. The shield should protect it, but I will keep a eye on it. So you cant add loc line to it? I may give Ed a call and ask him what he thinks. I will make sure they dont interfer with things in their rotation. So what do you think, should they be Nsysnc? They wont exactly be that way with them being close to the overflows on the side but I can get them close. __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

02-10-2002, 12:23 PM	#2
Ironreef Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Pacific WA Posts: 1,220	I'm wondering why? If it's a cloosed loop you won't drain your tank.. unless the pump itself leaks. It all will remain in the plumbing. But fwiw if you keep just one input up high if it's conncected to all the plumbing it should break siphon= just one flex pipe keep hihger up and use seaswilrs on the rest. Or you can just use quality check valves. Use clear one sure they can fail but so can antisiphon holes. But I use a flex nozzel and a check valve for double protection and if all failed my sump still can handle most of the water. But imo putting antisiphon holes on the seaswirls will void the warrenty. And the plumbing is to high to drill= water will splash all over the top. JME

02-10-2002, 01:30 PM	#4
Ironreef Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Pacific WA Posts: 1,220	I see you just want to break siphon for the maintance?? Maybe i just do n't understand? Put a plug on the drain? FWIW I use ball valves on all my drains just for maintance purposes. i always run them all the way opens but ime ballvaves are always good . Sounds like you just want to redue your plumbing and only use seaswirls?

02-10-2002, 04:55 PM	#5
wastedincome420 Council Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NH Posts: 270	How ya making out Paul,?? I would use a cap with a nub of pipe on it and insert it inthe suction side of the line. that should stop any water from going into the suction line. Let us know how it all went Mark

02-10-2002, 05:16 PM	#6
golfish Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Alta Loma,Ca Posts: 2,925	Yeah, Mark got to it before me. If you can fit a cap over the end of the pipes then that would be best.

02-10-2002, 07:37 PM	#8
wastedincome420 Council Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NH Posts: 270	Well I'm glad to hear that things didnt go all that bad for ya Paul Did you take any pics of todays project?? So you like the new Seaswirl?? Mark

02-10-2002, 08:04 PM	#10
wastedincome420 Council Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NH Posts: 270	Looks good so far paul After all Rome (& reefs) wern't built in a day

02-10-2002, 09:01 PM	#14
wastedincome420 Council Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: NH Posts: 270	huh that is a good point bout them being nsysnc. I would think that if both brand new,same size, and aimed/started at the same time they should be really close. I think that would be a kool "wave" feature

02-10-2002, 10:03 PM	#15
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	yeah it says not to use loc-linebecause the extra pressure could cause the whole outlet to blow off. that said,i extended mine deeper in the water today,and it works great.i think the instructions might say something about not doing that too. as for them being "nsync",mine have been like justin and jc since i setup a couple months ago,and its tearin' up my heart

02-11-2002, 12:20 AM	#16
Ironreef Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Pacific WA Posts: 1,220	yup on pg3. 2-3rd paragraph =you will run the risk of the 90 degree elbow blowing off the osciliating pipe due to excessive weight at the end of the pipe. Not to mention extra drag or wear on the motor. And we know how weak the motors are= thats why they put bigger ones on. IMO i wouldn't risk adding more weigth to a cheap plastic motor which has had problems in the past. They cost to much to replace

02-11-2002, 12:27 AM	#17
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	thanks for the reassurance ironreef SCUBA!did you get advice from sea swirl before you mod. youres?i just did mine today,a little different than youres,but not much. i guess it would depend how much you extend=dont make it too long and reduce and youll probly be ok??i think.i only extended mine about 1" and i dont even have the reducer nozzle thing on the output,so im sure im fine,as for locline,i wouldnt *wait a minute im yelling for scuba but i think hes in hava-i

02-11-2002, 01:40 AM	#18
Ironreef Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Pacific WA Posts: 1,220	I dunno if an inch will matter much but I've seen pic with 4-5" of locline. it maynot matter but they still had problems with the motors they are cheap plastic gears .... well I belive they are. But I've had no problems with mine 1" seaswirl new motor

02-11-2002, 05:57 AM	#19
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	Well I originally was going to add a sch80 coupling and a stub pc of pipe ( I emailed SS about this) but Slowes home improvment didnt have 1" sch 80 couplings, they had every other size I need to place a order from Mcmaster and I may order them there. I agree with Mark, I think the issue is them hitting something, but then mine is just a slide on concection. We'll see what SeaSwirls says to my email. __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

02-11-2002, 08:04 AM	#20
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	ltspd,to connect to the outlet you need 1 1/4 couplings

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