180 starphire

clown-t · 04-11-2002, 02:45 PM

my wife is the greatest. she is letting me order a 180 starphire. so i have a few hundred quetion before i do. first best size of a hole for my returns and closed looped. will a amp master3000 handle the return or what is a better selection of pump. should the tank have more then one over flow box or will the two hole in the over flow work and any guess what the flow per hour will be with the two holes. more to come later. thanks kent

reefhead · 04-11-2002, 03:59 PM

Pics of Ninong's Starphire Glass Tank from Canada, eh!

clown-t · 04-11-2002, 06:35 PM

is there any where in the states you can buy starphire? if so is there a site to go to.

**scubadude** · 04-11-2002, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clown-t
is there any where in the states you can buy starphire?

Sure there is IA is NOT the only manufacture of starphire....You need to try to find a local aquarium builder....preferably a small business...not some big outfit like "All Glass" or "Perfecto". Any glass business has access to Starphire (or should be able to get it) If you still cant find anything then I would be more than happy to build you a starphire tank (I have pics of tanks I have built to at request)...........
..just gimme the dimensions you want and ALL the specifics and I will give you a quote. Starphire glass cost about 2.5 times more expensive than regular glass.

organicreefer · 04-11-2002, 09:00 PM

hey scuba ,
so you just jumped right in and built a couple large tanks?how hard did you find it?did youre silicone jobs come out bubble -free?ive been seriously considering building my own someday,and i like glass.im pretty good with a caulking gun(im a painter..hoooray!lol),i would think it would be a snap for me.
did you have help? you silicone the whole thing all at once ,right?.if you want to go into any details that would be cool.tia

**Ninong** · 04-12-2002, 10:42 AM

clown-t,

What state do you live in?

When I ordered my Starphire tank more than a year ago there were very few U.S. builders using Starphire glass and those few that did offer it charged very high prices. That's why I ordered mine from Canada. However, since then more U.S. builders are now willing to use it. I know that Lee-Mar in the San Diego area now builds Starphire tanks and there are at least two or three builders on the east coast, one in New Jersey and one in Florida that I have heard of. Some of these builders are unwilling to ship their tanks, so that can present a problem.

For a 180-gal tank, I think you would be better off with two separate overflows, one in each corner. I would make the drains 1.5" rather than the standard 1". If you plan on also having separate closed loop circulation then I guess you could get by with less capacity on the corner drains but I still think two overflows are better than one on a 72" long tank. BTW, if you are considering ordering a tank from Inter-American in Calgary, you can get one 72"x27"x27" for the same price as 72"x24"x24". He does not charge extra for 27" height or width because of the size of the standard 12mm PPG Starphire glass sheets--108"x130". That would give you a 227-gal tank! Or you could go with 72"x24"x27" for 202 gallons.

An Amp Master 3000 would be an excellent choice for the return pump provided you go with two 1.5" drains. Two 1.5" drains would give you at least 4000gph flow capacity whereas two 1" drains would give you only half of that.

GregD · 04-12-2002, 11:13 AM

Ninong,

Could you please post or PM me the information on the tank builder in New Jersey that can do Starphire tanks?

Thanks,
Greg D

**scubadude** · 04-12-2002, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by organicreefer
hey scuba ,
so you just jumped right in and built a couple large tanks?how hard did you find it?did youre silicone jobs come out bubble -free?ive been seriously considering building my own someday,and i like glass.im pretty good with a caulking gun(im a painter..hoooray!lol),i would think it would be a snap for me.
did you have help? you silicone the whole thing all at once ,right?.if you want to go into any details that would be cool.tia

LOL No I didnt just jump right in and start building tanks...I have spent numerous hours and days with the guy that built my starphire tank and I was lucky enough that he took me under his wing and taught me how to build tanks. Yes my silicone came out bubble free. With big tanks (200g+) you really need 2 sometimes 3 ppl to help you put it together at certain points. Every tank is built differently and NO you dont silicone everything at once. I would love to go into detail but it is really something you have to just dive into and get hands on learning....the biggest advice I can give you is to get a bunch of 1/4" glass and build 2-3 tanks ...something like a 20g, 40g, and a 55g. Maybe even swap the 55g for a 75 or 90 gal but use 3/8" glass for that. Once you have mastered these areas then you can go onto 1/2" which you can build 200-300 gal tanks with. There are rules too to building tanks....Like when building with 1/4" you cant go taller than 20" and even 20" can be too high in certain instances (18" is the norm) and with 3/8" a 24" height is the norm.....etc etc.....Im not saying that a tank CANT be built higher with the above thickness and work....but more than likely you will have flaws when first starting out and its better to have flaws on a $20 piece of glass versus a $100 piece of glass. Cutting/Breaking (yes breaking) glass is an art too...did you know that an OLD glass cutter works better than a new one!....NEVER NEVER retrace your cuts!...after making a cut you have to put a straight end just to the side of the cut running the WHOLE length of the cut and then you use sharp, even, level blows to finish the cut (you wont cut all the way through the glass), this is the part that is an art, and if you dont know what you are doing then you will get uneven, jagged, and possibly broken cuts. HTH

**scubadude** · 04-12-2002, 12:18 PM

I forgot to add, one thing....if you want the easy way out of building a tank you can just order your glass precut and drilled to your specs and all you have to do is put it together....IMO thats not a real aquarium builder though :P Whatever you do be VERY CAREFUL....as you can cut yourself VERY easily building tanks!

fishrule · 04-14-2002, 06:42 PM

dag · 12-19-2002, 07:25 AM

Kent, I was just wondering what you eventually settled on in terms of drains and returns and the location of the overflow?

Ltspd · 12-21-2002, 07:00 AM

Will you be able to see the sides of the tank from the room its going in? If so, why would you want 2 overflows on the sides, overflow boxes are sort of ugly. The also eat up tank space

To the best of my knowledge you cant push 4000 gph through the sump without making bubbles. About 1800 - 2000 gph is about it. So IMO why have that much drain capacity that goes unused?

Why not have 1 overflow in the center (hiden by LR possibly) and spend the extra money on drilling the tank for a closed loop. The closed loop is where you will gain that 4000 gph WITHOUT creating bubbles

I have a Starphire that HAD (2) overflow boxes with 1-1/2 drains and 1" returns. I hated looking at the sides of my tank and seeing the overflow boxes, I did cover them up with black acrylic which helped some. I never used nor will ever use that much drain capacity on the overflow. You just cant push that much water through the sump. I will be going back with 1 overflow box with ONLY the drain inside of it. The return lines will come up outside of the box and be piped up to water level. I would have drilled these in the back but can not due to my tank construction. I will be using the OLD drain and return holes to run my closed loop.

I also HAD cross bracing, but have removed that and will be using perimeter bracing instead. Dont cross brace, its gets in the way in more ways than 1. Mitch (IA) knows how to perimeter brace request that.

Take your time and do it right the 1st time.

Tank · 12-22-2002, 05:04 PM

Just talked to Mitch. He estimated me a price of around $1100 for a 72x27x27 Starfire with polished edges, 1.5 inch center overflow, and euro bracing. I will probly be calling and placing my order in a few weeks. This guy is cheap! Thanks for the lead guys! O yea, that includes shipping, and is only an estimate. Only problem now is a stand........ any ideas?

dag · 12-22-2002, 07:00 PM

Tank,

It sounds like we're planning similar tanks. I want a stand that has a built-in look and I have a lead on a cabinet maker in the Chicago area. Perhaps we can coordinate our efforts. I'm still puzzling over whether I should have the tank drilled for a closed loop in addition to the drain in the overflow. I would also like a little more comfort that Mitch's tanks are strong enough to support the eurobracing. I think Paul (ltspd) is doing some research on that. Are you planning on doing your own plumbing installation?

Tank · 12-22-2002, 08:55 PM

Dag,
I assume his tanks are plenty strong for that style of bracing, if not I don't think he would have offered it? He sounded like he has done this more than a few times before. I think I'd have him drill the holes for the closed loop. He has the tools and he makes the tank, also if he's drilling for the overflow anyway he could do the loop with ease. Let me know about your cabinet maker. I'm thinking it'll be a few weeks before I order so probably a few months till the tank arrives. Give Mitch a call sometime and talk to him about your needs, he seems pretty accomidating to me. I noticed you're in Chicago, any chance that you'd have a frag or 2 to swap with a few other chicagoins? Other than the drilling, yes I plan to do my own plumbing work.

dag · 12-22-2002, 09:54 PM

I'd be happy to swap, once I'm up and running. It's taking a long time. My email is albenjamin@attbi.com.

sunflashx · 12-27-2002, 05:33 PM

A local shop around here stocks a few standard size Lee-Mar tanks. They are totally top-notch construction, even on the standard issue tanks. Much nicer than All-Glass tanks for only a fraction more. The cost for Starfire glass from Lee-Mar is roughly 30% more, but the cost only applies to the pieces of glass you have upgraded. So for a standard application you would want L+R+F pieces upgraded. this would be 30% more charged for just those sides. Not 30% on top of the total cost of the tank.

I think getting a tank done "euro style" with the glass on the top for bracing adds significant cost to the tank, more so I beleive, than having the tank built with Starfire.

The local place I have been dealing with is "Mountain Shadow Marine" 801-299-1409 http://www.msmaquatics.com . They are only open for retail Thurs-Sat. The rest of the days are solely commecial installation and mainenance. They will take a message and call you back on those days though. Ask for Randy.

04-11-2002, 02:45 PM	#1
clown-t Citizen Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: greenfield in usa Posts: 206	180 starphire my wife is the greatest. she is letting me order a 180 starphire. so i have a few hundred quetion before i do. first best size of a hole for my returns and closed looped. will a amp master3000 handle the return or what is a better selection of pump. should the tank have more then one over flow box or will the two hole in the over flow work and any guess what the flow per hour will be with the two holes. more to come later. thanks kent

04-11-2002, 03:59 PM	#2
reefhead Governor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: st.petersburg,Fl. Posts: 1,513	Pics of Ninong's Starphire Glass Tank from Canada, eh! __________________ Joseph Abrams Enjoy Being, LLC www.NanoReefCentral.com

04-12-2002, 10:42 AM	#6
Ninong Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Louisiana Posts: 19,500	clown-t, What state do you live in? When I ordered my Starphire tank more than a year ago there were very few U.S. builders using Starphire glass and those few that did offer it charged very high prices. That's why I ordered mine from Canada. However, since then more U.S. builders are now willing to use it. I know that Lee-Mar in the San Diego area now builds Starphire tanks and there are at least two or three builders on the east coast, one in New Jersey and one in Florida that I have heard of. Some of these builders are unwilling to ship their tanks, so that can present a problem. For a 180-gal tank, I think you would be better off with two separate overflows, one in each corner. I would make the drains 1.5" rather than the standard 1". If you plan on also having separate closed loop circulation then I guess you could get by with less capacity on the corner drains but I still think two overflows are better than one on a 72" long tank. BTW, if you are considering ordering a tank from Inter-American in Calgary, you can get one 72"x27"x27" for the same price as 72"x24"x24". He does not charge extra for 27" height or width because of the size of the standard 12mm PPG Starphire glass sheets--108"x130". That would give you a 227-gal tank! Or you could go with 72"x24"x27" for 202 gallons. An Amp Master 3000 would be an excellent choice for the return pump provided you go with two 1.5" drains. Two 1.5" drains would give you at least 4000gph flow capacity whereas two 1" drains would give you only half of that. __________________ Ninong

04-14-2002, 06:42 PM	#10
fishrule Council Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Jacksonville fl usa Posts: 328	1 Last edited by fishrule; 01-05-2003 at 01:28 AM.

12-19-2002, 07:25 AM	#11
dag Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 18	Eventual Solution Kent, I was just wondering what you eventually settled on in terms of drains and returns and the location of the overflow?

04-11-2002, 06:35 PM	#3
clown-t Citizen Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: greenfield in usa Posts: 206	is there any where in the states you can buy starphire? if so is there a site to go to.

04-11-2002, 09:00 PM	#5
organicreefer Governor Join Date: May 2001 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,171	hey scuba , so you just jumped right in and built a couple large tanks?how hard did you find it?did youre silicone jobs come out bubble -free?ive been seriously considering building my own someday,and i like glass.im pretty good with a caulking gun(im a painter..hoooray!lol),i would think it would be a snap for me. did you have help? you silicone the whole thing all at once ,right?.if you want to go into any details that would be cool.tia

04-12-2002, 11:13 AM	#7
GregD Citizen Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA...USA Posts: 134	Ninong, Could you please post or PM me the information on the tank builder in New Jersey that can do Starphire tanks? Thanks, Greg D

04-12-2002, 12:18 PM	#9
scubadude Moderator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wichita, Kansas Posts: 5,253	I forgot to add, one thing....if you want the easy way out of building a tank you can just order your glass precut and drilled to your specs and all you have to do is put it together....IMO thats not a real aquarium builder though :P Whatever you do be VERY CAREFUL....as you can cut yourself VERY easily building tanks!

12-21-2002, 07:00 AM	#12
Ltspd Governor Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Arden, NC USA Posts: 2,767	Will you be able to see the sides of the tank from the room its going in? If so, why would you want 2 overflows on the sides, overflow boxes are sort of ugly. The also eat up tank space To the best of my knowledge you cant push 4000 gph through the sump without making bubbles. About 1800 - 2000 gph is about it. So IMO why have that much drain capacity that goes unused? Why not have 1 overflow in the center (hiden by LR possibly) and spend the extra money on drilling the tank for a closed loop. The closed loop is where you will gain that 4000 gph WITHOUT creating bubbles I have a Starphire that HAD (2) overflow boxes with 1-1/2 drains and 1" returns. I hated looking at the sides of my tank and seeing the overflow boxes, I did cover them up with black acrylic which helped some. I never used nor will ever use that much drain capacity on the overflow. You just cant push that much water through the sump. I will be going back with 1 overflow box with ONLY the drain inside of it. The return lines will come up outside of the box and be piped up to water level. I would have drilled these in the back but can not due to my tank construction. I will be using the OLD drain and return holes to run my closed loop. I also HAD cross bracing, but have removed that and will be using perimeter bracing instead. Dont cross brace, its gets in the way in more ways than 1. Mitch (IA) knows how to perimeter brace request that. Take your time and do it right the 1st time. __________________ Paul C Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

12-22-2002, 05:04 PM	#13
Tank Conflicted Reefer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Steger, IL Posts: 516	Just talked to Mitch. He estimated me a price of around $1100 for a 72x27x27 Starfire with polished edges, 1.5 inch center overflow, and euro bracing. I will probly be calling and placing my order in a few weeks. This guy is cheap! Thanks for the lead guys! O yea, that includes shipping, and is only an estimate. Only problem now is a stand........ any ideas? Last edited by Tank; 12-22-2002 at 05:06 PM.

12-22-2002, 07:00 PM	#14
dag Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 18	Keep me posted Tank, It sounds like we're planning similar tanks. I want a stand that has a built-in look and I have a lead on a cabinet maker in the Chicago area. Perhaps we can coordinate our efforts. I'm still puzzling over whether I should have the tank drilled for a closed loop in addition to the drain in the overflow. I would also like a little more comfort that Mitch's tanks are strong enough to support the eurobracing. I think Paul (ltspd) is doing some research on that. Are you planning on doing your own plumbing installation?

12-22-2002, 08:55 PM	#15
Tank Conflicted Reefer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Steger, IL Posts: 516	Dag, I assume his tanks are plenty strong for that style of bracing, if not I don't think he would have offered it? He sounded like he has done this more than a few times before. I think I'd have him drill the holes for the closed loop. He has the tools and he makes the tank, also if he's drilling for the overflow anyway he could do the loop with ease. Let me know about your cabinet maker. I'm thinking it'll be a few weeks before I order so probably a few months till the tank arrives. Give Mitch a call sometime and talk to him about your needs, he seems pretty accomidating to me. I noticed you're in Chicago, any chance that you'd have a frag or 2 to swap with a few other chicagoins? Other than the drilling, yes I plan to do my own plumbing work.

12-22-2002, 09:54 PM	#16
dag Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 18	One day I'd be happy to swap, once I'm up and running. It's taking a long time. My email is albenjamin@attbi.com.

12-27-2002, 05:33 PM	#17
sunflashx Just Moved In Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 19	A local shop around here stocks a few standard size Lee-Mar tanks. They are totally top-notch construction, even on the standard issue tanks. Much nicer than All-Glass tanks for only a fraction more. The cost for Starfire glass from Lee-Mar is roughly 30% more, but the cost only applies to the pieces of glass you have upgraded. So for a standard application you would want L+R+F pieces upgraded. this would be 30% more charged for just those sides. Not 30% on top of the total cost of the tank. I think getting a tank done "euro style" with the glass on the top for bracing adds significant cost to the tank, more so I beleive, than having the tank built with Starfire. The local place I have been dealing with is "Mountain Shadow Marine" 801-299-1409 http://www.msmaquatics.com . They are only open for retail Thurs-Sat. The rest of the days are solely commecial installation and mainenance. They will take a message and call you back on those days though. Ask for Randy.

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